Paul Corfield wrote:

The only time that the full picture truly does emerge is when an
official report does get published.

Meanwhile, Tim O'Toole's statement to the TfL Board yesterday, which is
at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=432
is a useful summary of what happened, including details that some people
may not yet be aware of, as well as deserved praise well expressed.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

In message , Paul Corfield
writes

My own preference would be for people to take a calmer, more considered
view and to wait to hear from those authorities who can speak
definitively.

This returns to the issue of human nature. The vast numbers who travel
on London's transport system are surely entitled to probe what might
have happened. It is not really in the British nature to be content to
merely "wait to hear from authorities" - they may eventually come up
with a definitive report, but most of us like to use our own minds and
intelligence (as well-informed as we can manage), rather than just to
depend on the great and good to tell us what happened.

While I appreciate your sensitivities about the unburied, no amount of
speculation is going to change their fate, but sensible debate may lead
the living to understand better what happened - and perhaps even to
evaluate more meaningfully what the "authorities" eventually decide to
tell us.

In short, I don't think that wishing to limit discussion is particularly
helpful - and in any democracy, if you allow discussion, you will find
the extremists, ignorant and loonies all pitching in. No matter, most of
us can sort the sheep from the goats.

I am obviously aware that the "loony squad" have been crossposting.
Trying to ignore their nonsense is not a particularly palatable
exercise.

I find "kill thread" continues to work well.

--
Paul Terry

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 18:33:51 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:

The only time that the full picture truly does emerge is when an
official report does get published.

Meanwhile, Tim O'Toole's statement to the TfL Board yesterday, which is
at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=432
is a useful summary of what happened, including details that some people
may not yet be aware of, as well as deserved praise well expressed.

Agreed. Well worth a read,
--
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 20:25:03 +0100, Paul Terry
wrote:

In message , Paul Corfield
writes

My own preference would be for people to take a calmer, more considered
view and to wait to hear from those authorities who can speak
definitively.

This returns to the issue of human nature. The vast numbers who travel
on London's transport system are surely entitled to probe what might
have happened. It is not really in the British nature to be content to
merely "wait to hear from authorities" - they may eventually come up
with a definitive report, but most of us like to use our own minds and
intelligence (as well-informed as we can manage), rather than just to
depend on the great and good to tell us what happened.

Actually, I think that it is entirely within the "British nature" to
wait for a fuller picture, but some sections of the media and the
usual crackpot conspiracy brigade have gone into overdrive with a
childish and unreasonable, "I want to know everything NOW!" attitude.
It's only a week after the event, and to expect a complete picture at
this stage is unreasonable, to put it mildly, even given the
remarkable porogress the police have4 made so far.
--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War:
http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm
625-Online - classic British television:
http://www.625.org.uk
'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic:
http://www.thingstocome.org.uk

In article .com,
Peter Vos writes
Kind of odd coincidence the bombs went off there. But examining your
detailed layout it actually looks like the bombs went off right around
Aldgate Junction and Praed Street Junction. Is that true?

Near, not at. In the latter case, I believe the train was only just
leaving Edgware Road and hadn't got near the junction.

If true, it suggests a significantly higher level of research beyond
merely riding the trains and checking out TfL maps.

Not really: the junctions are obvious from the maps and from riding the
trains.

If it was actually intended, then scheduling becomes more relevant
because you have to pick two trains that will simultaneously hit the
junctions.

But they didn't, and in any case it isn't predictable on a day-to-day
basis.

I wonder why they didn't hop off at Edgware Road and
Liverpool Street while leaving the packages behind.

That's a different question which we may never know the answer to.

Would you get as far as Edgware and Liverpool?
No. Circle Line trains don't go to either.
Now yer bein' churlish.... Edgware ROAD and Liverpool STREET

I think the proclivity for abbr. is a cultural thing. In the US we
abbr. everything.

In the UK we don't, particularly when it matters.

Near me is a station where trains go from the same platform to Liverpool
Street and to Liverpool. Liverpool Lime Street, to be precise. Details
matter.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

In article , Richard J.
writes
I think it is pointless in this particular context.

It's pointless in the sense that others have more information and will
reach valid conclusions more certainly and quickly (as the police did).
But I can understand people wanting to understand how it happened, in
the same way that people do whenever there's a railway accident.

Every evening down the pub thousands of people discuss ways in which -
for example - Manchester United Football Club could be run. Those
discussions are equally pointless, yet nobody says they shouldn't be
held.

Think of this as a virtual pub for LT enthusiasts.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

In article m, Roland
Perry writes
But Liverpool Lime Street is! (Keeping on a transport topic).

Tourists at places where trains go to both LS and LLS

"LLS" being London Liverpool Street, I presume?

[I won't get my coat, because it's too hot.]

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 18:33:51 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:

The only time that the full picture truly does emerge is when an
official report does get published.

Meanwhile, Tim O'Toole's statement to the TfL Board yesterday, which is
at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=432
is a useful summary of what happened, including details that some people
may not yet be aware of, as well as deserved praise well expressed.

I have to say that as both a commuter and an amateur researcher into
certain aspects of LU's history, I have been very impressed with Tim
O'Toole in the last nine days, not just in his obvious leadership
qualities essential at a time like this, but also for his unstinting
support for his staff, and his efforts to explain a very complex
situation, unfortunately largely to a media that seems intent on
deliberately misunderstanding those explanations for the sake of a
"good story." It beggared belief, after watching some of the press
conference he did with the Met and the BTP, live with one's own eyes,
seeing them subsequently being distorted out of all recognition by the
press.
--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War:
http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm
625-Online - classic British television:
http://www.625.org.uk
'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic:
http://www.thingstocome.org.uk

On Fri, 15 Jul 2005, Clive D. W. Feather wrote:

Think of this as a virtual pub for LT enthusiasts.

That should go in the charter!

tom

--
taxidermy, high tide marks, sabotage, markets, folklore, subverting, .