On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 00:39:40 +0100, John Turner wrote in
, seen in uk.railway:
"Ross" wrote

You want to try working in an environment where your respect
for and treatment of customers has a direct impact on whether
or not you have a pay packet at the end of the week/month.
You'd soon change your attitude.

Would you like to tell me which environment that is, John?

Self-employment where you survive or fail by your own efforts.

That would be like, for example, plumbers and jobbing builders,
neither group being people exactly famed for their customer service
abilities? Yet both groups seem to live pretty well, going by the
anecdotal evidence.

I think you can find people in *any* walk of life with the customer
service skills of a angry wasp. It's not really reasonable to say or
infer that "[$Specific Job] must equal Good Service Skills".

--
Ross, Lincoln, UK

We're *not* afraid
http://www.werenotafraid.com

"Uncle Fester" wrote

Not many opportunities for self employment in public transport.

There were none in the area in which I was working, but that didn't stop me
going off at a complete tangent and setting up my own business. That was
twenty years ago.

If you want a challenge, but are prepared to accept every (well almost
every) body as a friend, confidante then give it a go - the rewards are
generally far better than they ever would be working in public transport -
although I'd settle for the wages, pension and paid holidays of some train
drivers I know.

John.

"Ross" replied to

John Turner who wrote

Self-employment where you survive or fail by your own efforts.

That would be like, for example, plumbers and jobbing builders,
neither group being people exactly famed for their customer service
abilities? Yet both groups seem to live pretty well, going by the
anecdotal evidence.

Yes but I wasn't including *criminal activity* in my argument. ;-)

My wife and I run a small model shop where we are totally reliant on the
good will of our customers. We've been doing that for almost twenty years,
but not many customers come back if you treat them with contempt, so we have
to treat them well.

John.

"John Turner" wrote in message
. ..

My wife and I run a small model shop where we are totally reliant on the
good will of our customers. We've been doing that for almost twenty
years, but not many customers come back if you treat them with contempt,
so we have to treat them well.

The difference is that bus drivers, TOC staff et al know full well that we
*have* to use their services - we can't take our business elsewhere at a
similar cost - so they can treat us with as much derision, contempt and
sneering bad-attitude as they like and we are powerless to do anything about
it.

On the odd occasion when I have reported to a company an instance of
appalling behaviour, I have no doubt that, despite the palliative letters
and promises that it would be dealt with, no mention of it would ever have
been made to the offenders.

Ian

John Turner wrote:
"Ross" replied to

John Turner who wrote

Self-employment where you survive or fail by your own efforts.

That would be like, for example, plumbers and jobbing builders,
neither group being people exactly famed for their customer service
abilities? Yet both groups seem to live pretty well, going by the
anecdotal evidence.

Yes but I wasn't including *criminal activity* in my argument. ;-)

My wife and I run a small model shop where we are totally reliant on
the good will of our customers. We've been doing that for almost
twenty years, but not many customers come back if you treat them with
contempt, so we have to treat them well.


But there again, running a model shop you're meeting only those people who
*want* to be there and are induging in their hobby (unless they're buying a
prezzie or somesuch). On that basis I would suggest that you will almost
always be dealing with people who are pleasant and polite. The only time
that someone is likely to be upset about anything is if something they've
bought is defective in some way, but even then most people realise thet you
didn't do it deliberately and are happy to accept your efforts to put things
right.

Does such a situation prevail between railway passengers and station staff?

On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 01:35:13 +0100 someone who may be Uncle Fester
wrote this:-

Not many opportunities for self employment in public transport.

According to the Conservative Party redundant steel workers would
each buy £5000 second-hand buses and do so much better than the
semi-nationalised bus operation then operating.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

Ian F. wrote:
"John Turner" wrote in message
. ..

My wife and I run a small model shop where we are totally reliant on
the good will of our customers. We've been doing that for almost
twenty years, but not many customers come back if you treat them
with contempt, so we have to treat them well.

The difference is that bus drivers, TOC staff et al know full well
that we *have* to use their services - we can't take our business
elsewhere at a similar cost - so they can treat us with as much
derision, contempt and sneering bad-attitude as they like and we are
powerless to do anything about it.


No you don't have to use any such services. If you want to know why a small
minority of people fail to do the job properly look around you, such people
are everywhere. Those railway and other transport employees who are intent
on doing the job properly are just as ****ed off with the wasters as you
are.

"Robin Mayes" wrote in message
...

"Paul" wrote in message
k...

As the song says: "lazy f***ing useless c*nts"

Yes, of course. That's why they were the first on the scene on 7th July
2005
leading customers to safety and tending to the wounded without any
breathing
apparatus or insisting the area was checked for more devices first.
Amazing
how quickly people forget.

Amazing how people think their actions are (or would be) any different to
anyone elses.
If a building I often work in had en explosive device detonated, there would
be people doing exactly the same thing. I fail to see the connection
between the impression that a large number of people have of LU frontline
staff in their day-to-day role and the normal way that (some) of those staff
would react in a one-off emergency situation.

"Brimstone" wrote in message
...

The only time
that someone is likely to be upset about anything is if something they've
bought is defective in some way, but even then most people realise thet
you
didn't do it deliberately and are happy to accept your efforts to put
things
right.

Does such a situation prevail between railway passengers and station
staff?

Such a situation does indeed prevail. If one expects a decent system to
function in the way that you paid for it to do so, but it doesn't, then
understandably, some people are going to get a bit upset about it.

But a large part depends on the individuals involved, and not just the
organisation itself.

Take for example the journey we had last night from Newbury to Ealing. The
2239 had turned into a service that terminated at Reading West due to
planned engineering. Not a problem. Except the replacement bus was nowhere
to be seen initially, and the next local bus service was approx 10+ minutes
away according to the realtime info at the bus stop at Reading West.
Replacement bus eventually turns up to take us as far as Reading. Arrive
Reading 2330. Told at Reading that (as advertised) only one line open
beyond Slough, but delays, and we'd have to detrain at Maidenhead for a bus
onwards.

Arrive Maidenhead. No bus; driver tells us the HST across on the UF will be
going all the way through to London, they're trying to sort out what's
happening with the bus, and best bet is to take the train as a replacement
bus will definately be running from Slough. Everyone crosses over bar a few
who hope for a bus. About twenty minutes later, they've given up hope for a
bus and come over and board the train.

'Train Manager' on the HST advises via PA that pilotman working in
operation. Another ten minutes and a Westbound HST arrives next to us.
Departs. TM advises via PA that pilotman was not on train and we have to
wait for a second Westbound service to come through. Eventually does, and we
slowly get on the move.

Arrive at Slough. Lots of people detrain. FGWL chap on platform says
there'll be all-stops train onwards from P5. No sign of any other trains
and platform indicators fail to support his claim! Cue several people
politely pointing this out to the platform chap and TM, with everyone
realising even if the last train from Paddington was miraculously running;
we'd all miss it. And no answer on whether the original suggestion of a bus
from Slough was happening. Wonder how many hours we'd have been stood on P5
if we'd listed to the first chap?

"Not my problem" the stunningly helpful TM advised. "Go to Paddington,
they -might- be able to help you there".

Half-full train of bewildered tired passengers arrive 35mins later into
Paddington. No announcements on how to get anywhere or any taxi provision
etc., from the TM. Pathetic.

No sign of any staff.

Walk towards P1/taxi rank.

Suddenly the most helpful and apologetic gentlemen from FGW appears, and in
a very efficient and orderly fashion helpfully and calmly tells everyone
individually that taxis are being organised, and despatches us in groups of
3/4 into taxis onwards.

With the exception of the gentlemen at Paddington, and the driver of the
Maidenhead bound FGWL train, it's hardly surprising that some people have a
perception of customer-facing staff in the rail industry as often having a
very crappy, unhelpful attitude [1].

Arrived into Ealing at 0220.


[1] And I do think that perhaps some of that wouldn't happen if they
actually had the correct information themselves. I don't understand how
they can tell people things that are just blatently wrong though - bizzare!

Ian Harper wrote:

[1] And I do think that perhaps some of that wouldn't happen if they
actually had the correct information themselves. I don't understand
how they can tell people things that are just blatently wrong though
- bizzare!

I quite agree. I used to deliver cars for a living visiting strange towns
and villages on a daily basis and had to find my way to an address. On one
memorable occasion I was given an incomplete address simply because the
client's employee - a major softdrinks compamy IIRC - had failed to pass it
on. That cost me some two hurs wasted time since I was supposed to be six
miles from where I actually was and the only means of getting there was to
hitchhike. The worst part was that I'd already passed the place.

On some occasions I was delivering the car and so was driving, on others I
was there to collect it and so was walking. More than once I was given
deliberately wrong information by people who had never clapped eyes on me
before and who would gain no benefit. Some I'm quite sure did it as some
form of amusement.

In the specific context that you describe I suspect that you were told
untruths because the people telling you believed what they were saying.
Other may simply have been ignorant of the real situation but were trying to
get you forward on your journey. Others still may have simply been trying to
get rid of you, akthough quite why someone takes on the job of traincrew
when incapable of dealing with problems I don't know.