On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 21:45:35 +0100, steve
wrote:

One the penalises the selfish. Box junction blocking causes congestion.

It does. *But*, often, the box junctions are poorly-designed such
that it is easy, by a slight misjudgement, to end up being stuck in
the box inadvertently. That needs the junction to be redesigned, not
for lots of people to be fined.

My personal view is that I am against traffic enforcement cameras, and
would rather see more police officers out enforcing the law, and using
discretion as appropriate. An increase in the level of fines would go
some way to funding this.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Neil Williams wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 21:45:35 +0100, steve
wrote:

One the penalises the selfish. Box junction blocking causes
congestion.

It does. *But*, often, the box junctions are poorly-designed such
that it is easy, by a slight misjudgement, to end up being stuck in
the box inadvertently.

I agree. I think many of the boxes are larger than necessary, filling
the whole space between the stop lines on either side of the junction,
rather than just leaving a gap in the middle. The result is that
drivers realise that there are parts of the box that can be occupied
without affecting traffic flow, and that the capacity of the junction
would be reduced if the law was rigidly observed. If we're going to have
zero tolerance of yellow box offences, then the boxes need to be more
sensibly drawn.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Neil Williams wrote:

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 21:45:35 +0100, steve
wrote:

One the penalises the selfish. Box junction blocking causes congestion.

It does. *But*, often, the box junctions are poorly-designed such
that it is easy, by a slight misjudgement, to end up being stuck in
the box inadvertently. That needs the junction to be redesigned, not
for lots of people to be fined.

I disagree. Most of the prats that go out into box junctions with their
exit blocked know exactly what they are doing and just don't give a
damn. Ditto for the ones that run red lights (and I would like to see
very much tougher penalties for that offence which endangers life).

Ideally the cameras should cover both if they are installed.

My personal view is that I am against traffic enforcement cameras, and
would rather see more police officers out enforcing the law, and using
discretion as appropriate. An increase in the level of fines would go
some way to funding this.

Box junctions help make traffic flow freely and prevent congestion.

I have lived in countries where they do not have this concept at all.
Traffic utterly ignores traffic lights at rush hour and a solid
herringbone of interlocked vehicles develops. They needed 2 or 3
policemen on every junction in the city for 2 hours morning and evening
to try and prevent complete gridlock. They spend most of their time
flailing arms uselessly in the air and blowing whistles. It is funny to
watch...

Regards,
Martin Brown

Often caused by a bad junction, usually one with 2 traffic lights close
together. The second light is red far too long, and so traffic from one
phase of the first light fills up all the available space and traffic
from the second phase can never move.

In message .com, at
04:18:50 on Tue, 26 Jul 2005, Earl Purple
remarked:
Often caused by a bad junction, usually one with 2 traffic lights close
together. The second light is red far too long, and so traffic from one
phase of the first light fills up all the available space and traffic
from the second phase can never move.

I've seen that in Central London.

A junction on a one-way street where a road joins from the left.

The road ahead fills up with traffic emerging from your left, and
there's no gap between the rear of the last car to emerge, and the box.

The traffic then sits there, stationary, all the time your light is
green.

Just as it starts to move, and leave you a gap to escape into across the
box, your light goes red.

The gap then fills up with traffic emerging from your left.

Rinse and repeat.
--
Roland Perry

In article , Neil Williams says...
On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 21:45:35 +0100, steve
wrote:

One the penalises the selfish. Box junction blocking causes congestion.

It does. *But*, often, the box junctions are poorly-designed such
that it is easy, by a slight misjudgement, to end up being stuck in
the box inadvertently.

********. If in doubt, stay out.


--
Conor

-You wanted an argument? Oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse. You want room
K5, just along the corridor. Stupid git. (Monty Python)