asdf wrote:

Apparently, from 25th September the charge for an incomplete Oyster
pre-pay journey starting or ending at the NR termini at Marylebone,
Euston, Liverpool Street and Fenchurch Street will be increased from
£1.70 to £5.00.


How will this work with boundary zone tickets then? I know from
experience of these at Victoria they do not open the gates (which makes
sense becuase they are valid from the zone boundary) and you have to
use your Oyster instead.

Is someone with a Boundary Zone 2 to Ilford ticket going to cop a £5
penalty at Liverpool Street? And if so, how is the helpline going to
solve it without you sending them the ticket to prove it - which could
have be collected at the destination ticket barrier?

--
Gareth Davis

wrote:
asdf wrote:


Apparently, from 25th September the charge for an incomplete Oyster
pre-pay journey starting or ending at the NR termini at Marylebone,
Euston, Liverpool Street and Fenchurch Street will be increased from
£1.70 to £5.00.



How will this work with boundary zone tickets then? I know from
experience of these at Victoria they do not open the gates (which makes
sense becuase they are valid from the zone boundary) and you have to
use your Oyster instead.

Is someone with a Boundary Zone 2 to Ilford ticket going to cop a £5
penalty at Liverpool Street? And if so, how is the helpline going to
solve it without you sending them the ticket to prove it - which could
have be collected at the destination ticket barrier?

If you have a boundary ticket then you must also have an Oyster season
including Z1, which will open all gates within its appropriate zones
without recoursing to prepay, regardless of whether there is a touch-in
to go with each touch-out.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Dave Arquati wrote:
wrote:
asdf wrote:
Apparently, from 25th September the charge for an incomplete Oyster
pre-pay journey starting or ending at the NR termini at Marylebone,
Euston, Liverpool Street and Fenchurch Street will be increased from
£1.70 to £5.00.

How will this work with boundary zone tickets then? I know from
experience of these at Victoria they do not open the gates (which makes
sense becuase they are valid from the zone boundary) and you have to
use your Oyster instead.

If you have a boundary ticket then you must also have an Oyster season
including Z1, which will open all gates within its appropriate zones
without recoursing to prepay, regardless of whether there is a touch-in
to go with each touch-out.

According to
http://www.atoc.org/traveltrade/manu...ionk-part2.pdf, I can
use a boundary zone extension with a one-day travelcard, including a
2-6 travelcard. Can't remember if these can be loaded onto Oyster.
But this combination isn't valid to zone 1, so you might end up paying
£5 instead of the difference between a 2-6 and a 1-6 travelcard.

Colin McKenzie

"Colin McKenzie" wrote in message
...
Dave Arquati wrote:
wrote:
asdf wrote:
Apparently, from 25th September the charge for an incomplete Oyster
pre-pay journey starting or ending at the NR termini at Marylebone,
Euston, Liverpool Street and Fenchurch Street will be increased from
£1.70 to £5.00.

How will this work with boundary zone tickets then? I know from
experience of these at Victoria they do not open the gates (which makes
sense becuase they are valid from the zone boundary) and you have to
use your Oyster instead.

If you have a boundary ticket then you must also have an Oyster season
including Z1, which will open all gates within its appropriate zones
without recoursing to prepay, regardless of whether there is a touch-in
to go with each touch-out.

According to
http://www.atoc.org/traveltrade/manu...ionk-part2.pdf, I can use
a boundary zone extension with a one-day travelcard, including a 2-6
travelcard. Can't remember if these can be loaded onto Oyster.
But this combination isn't valid to zone 1, so you might end up paying £5
instead of the difference between a 2-6 and a 1-6 travelcard.

Colin McKenzie

And I thought these things were supposed to make travel less complicated.

On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 21:28:14 +0200, "Skokkie"
wrote:

And I thought these things were supposed to make travel less complicated.

They are, but I don't believe they will until the fares structure is
totally recast to make their (exclusive?) use make sense.

A paper-based fares structure does not translate well to smartcard
use, unless a virtual ticket is loaded before travel. I strongly
suspect that the National Rail version, when it happens, will be of
the latter type - can you imagine trying to implement PrePay on the
messy NR fares structure?

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 19:44:59 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

And I thought these things were supposed to make travel less complicated.

They are, but I don't believe they will until the fares structure is
totally recast to make their (exclusive?) use make sense.

A paper-based fares structure does not translate well to smartcard
use, unless a virtual ticket is loaded before travel. I strongly
suspect that the National Rail version, when it happens, will be of
the latter type - can you imagine trying to implement PrePay on the
messy NR fares structure?

I don't think it would be too hard - I think the prepay system can
handle point-to-point fares, and different fares at different times of
day. The main change to the fares structure that would need to take
place would be an adjustment of the fares so that a return costs twice
as much as a single. Route- and TOC-specific fares would have to go,
but how many of those are there entirely within the TfL zones? You'd
also need to be able to store a Railcard on your Oyster.

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 11:06:05 +0100, asdf
wrote:

Route- and TOC-specific fares would have to go,
but how many of those are there entirely within the TfL zones?

I was referring to the entire national network, not the expansion of
Oyster onto NR within London. There is a proposal for a National Rail
smartcard unconnected with Oyster (though it may use the same
standard). Oyster Pre-Pay on London NR will probably be accompanied
with a "Verbundtarif" harmonising fares between NR and LUL completely.

You'd
also need to be able to store a Railcard on your Oyster.

It would be the ideal implementation of Railcards, as it would be
impossible to purchase and use a ticket without one.

Perhaps the biggest obstacle would be the need to install validators
at all stations if you were doing a "pre-pay style" setup. Can you
imagine one being installed at Reddish South? Or Kempston Hardwick?

I suspect that if it happens it will involve loading a ticket (or
tickets) onto the card before departure.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.