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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4307770.stm
Tubes and buses hit by fare hike Tube and bus fares in London paid for with cash are set to increase next year, the Mayor has announced. A single Tube journey in zone one will cost £3 instead of £2 while a single bus journey will rise from £1.20 to £1.50, said Mayor Ken Livingstone. However fares will fall for holders of the Oyster pre-pay smartcards. With Oyster, a zone one Tube ride will be cut from £1.70 to £1.50 - half the cash fare. Mr Livingstone said the aim was for fewer people to pay with cash. Speaking at City Hall, Mr Livingstone said the increased fares to be introduced from January would raise about £80m. 'World's most expensive' "This proposed fares package focuses on halving the number of cash journeys made in 2006 to speed up journeys and improve the efficiency of the network," he said. He conceded the new single Tube fare of £3 would probably be the most expensive in the world. Roger Evans, conservative chairman of the London Assembly Transport Committee, said: "How can the Mayor expect people to leave their cars at home when bus and Tube tickets are spiralling out of control?" London Assembly Lib Dems said the price hikes would clobber tourists and ultimately businesses during what is already a difficult time in the wake of the London bomb attacks. Geoff Pope, Liberal Democrat London Assembly Transport spokesman, said it would also hit those who cannot use Oyster cards because the majority of train companies running services to and from the capital still refuse to accept the card. A further rise in fares is expected in 2007, the last of three previously announced price hikes. The basic fare on London's buses rose by 20p to £1.20 in January this year. From August this year, all under-16s have been entitled to free travel on London's buses and trams and this will be extended to all under-18s in full-time education by September next year. |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4307770.stm
Tubes and buses hit by fare hike [...snip...] Oh dear, those spokesmen are going to look a little silly when they read their quotes. |
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Graham J wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4307770.stm Tubes and buses hit by fare hike [...snip...] Oh dear, those spokesmen are going to look a little silly when they read their quotes. And to think that just over 10 years ago a zone one fare was £1. Imagine if you had said that in 10 years time the fares would be 300% dearer. Kevin |
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I think I shoul have said 200%
Kevin |
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Now we know who's paying for all the kids/yobs to travel free. |
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In article , Paul @whydoyoucare.co.uk
(Paul) wrote: Geoff Pope, Liberal Democrat London Assembly Transport spokesman, said it would also hit those who cannot use Oyster cards because the majority of train companies running services to and from the capital still refuse to accept the card. Absolutely! No Oyster in Cambridge or Putney. If only there was a travelcard Network Awaybreak or Saver return. I get penalised for visiting my parents in Putney and staying overnight. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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Oh dear, those spokesmen are going to look a little silly when they read
their quotes. And to think that just over 10 years ago a zone one fare was £1. Imagine if you had said that in 10 years time the fares would be 300% dearer. That would indeed be a fair point. I know you meant 200% but of course that is a cash fare. The Oyster Pre-Pay fare will be £1.50. A 50% rise doesn't sound so bad. Bad enough, but not so bad. My point was aimed at the absurdity of the comments. The first one talked about bus and tube fares spiralling out of control. The season ticket prices are going up around 4% I believe, which could be considered excessive, but certainly not out of control. Oyster Pre-Pay prices seem to be staying the same or even being reduced, so they aren't out of control. Only for those wishing to use cash for daily fares is there an issue. The next one said the price hike would clobber tourists. Why? They can use an Oyster Pre-Pay just like anyone else and are encouraged to. Finally we had one saying that it would hit those who don't use Oyster cards because many train companies refuse them (I assume he meant don't issue them). Well I don't see how that forces them to pay cash fares instead of using Pre-Pay. OK with through daily tickets there may be an issue but surely not a huge one in the scheme of things. Seems to me that really the announcement was pretty reasonable and not really very controversial at all. |
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asdf wrote:
But the fare increases won't affect journeys from those stations. While it's a fair point that the train companies ought to start accepting pre-pay, Mr Pope has ended up looking a bit clueless IMO. In addition, I believe you cannot use a railcard (eg YP) on Oyster travel cards. |
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Chris Hills wrote:
asdf wrote: But the fare increases won't affect journeys from those stations. While it's a fair point that the train companies ought to start accepting pre-pay, Mr Pope has ended up looking a bit clueless IMO. In addition, I believe you cannot use a railcard (eg YP) on Oyster travel cards. Also the passengers charter says that rail users are entitled to a discount if punctuality falls below a certain level. This discount does not apply to oyster period travel cards. You know where you can stick yer oyser Ken! |
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Seems to me that really the announcement was pretty reasonable and not really very controversial at all. The papers print the same story every year and highlight only the worst comparisons they can find. |
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"Paul" wrote in message ... Chris Hills wrote: asdf wrote: But the fare increases won't affect journeys from those stations. While it's a fair point that the train companies ought to start accepting pre-pay, Mr Pope has ended up looking a bit clueless IMO. In addition, I believe you cannot use a railcard (eg YP) on Oyster travel cards. Also the passengers charter says that rail users are entitled to a discount if punctuality falls below a certain level. This discount does not apply to oyster period travel cards. You know where you can stick yer oyser Ken! Not true. Where season tickets are available on Oyster from National Rail stations (e.g. c2c/SWT etc.) they are sold on the same basis and with the same benefits. You would also be eligable to claim under the London Underground scheme as well as receive the TOC related renewal discount (where applicable). |
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"Chris Hills" wrote in message .uk... asdf wrote: But the fare increases won't affect journeys from those stations. While it's a fair point that the train companies ought to start accepting pre-pay, Mr Pope has ended up looking a bit clueless IMO. In addition, I believe you cannot use a railcard (eg YP) on Oyster travel cards. The only YP discount available on travelcards is a £6 Z1-6 off peak reduced to £4.80. This ticket is not available on Oyster at either price. The nearest match would be a Z1-6 capped fare of £5.70 Students however get 30% off all purchases of weekly or longer tickets purchased on Oyster (but not paper). |
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TKD wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message ... Chris Hills wrote: asdf wrote: But the fare increases won't affect journeys from those stations. While it's a fair point that the train companies ought to start accepting pre-pay, Mr Pope has ended up looking a bit clueless IMO. In addition, I believe you cannot use a railcard (eg YP) on Oyster travel cards. Also the passengers charter says that rail users are entitled to a discount if punctuality falls below a certain level. This discount does not apply to oyster period travel cards. You know where you can stick yer oyser Ken! Not true. Where season tickets are available on Oyster from National Rail stations (e.g. c2c/SWT etc.) they are sold on the same basis and with the same benefits. You would also be eligable to claim under the London Underground scheme as well as receive the TOC related renewal discount (where applicable). Oysters website says: National Rail discount Question My National Rail Train Operating Company, gives me a discount on the price of my season ticket. Will I get the same discount if I get a season ticket on Oyster? Answer Unfortunately not. Many Train Operating Companies offer discounts on their Travelcards in direct relation to the quality of their past service performance. Therefore, we are unable to take into consideration any discounts offered by National Rail Train Operating Companies. This kind of defeats the main advantage of oyster - buying online. P.S. Does anyone have any info on how many National Rail stations sell Oyster? -- Paul |
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Answer Unfortunately not. Many Train Operating Companies offer discounts on their Travelcards in direct relation to the quality of their past service performance. Therefore, we are unable to take into consideration any discounts offered by National Rail Train Operating Companies. This kind of defeats the main advantage of oyster - buying online. P.S. Does anyone have any info on how many National Rail stations sell Oyster? That's if you buy direct from TfL or online - there is no way they could (or would want to) calculate the discount. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...fares-2005.pdf Page 26 of this lists the NR stations selling Oyster Cards: Barking, Beckenham Junction, City Thameslink, Drayton Park, Ealing Broadway, East Croydon, Essex Road, Euston, Fenchurch Street, Finsbury Park, Greenwich, Gunnersbury, Harlesden, Harrow & Wealdstone, Kensal Green, Kensington Olympia, Kenton, Kew Gardens, Kings Cross (Thameslink), Lewisham, Limehouse, Liverpool Street, Marylebone, Mitcham Junction, New Cross, New Cross Gate, North Wembley, Queen's Park, Richmond, South Kenton, Stonebridge Park, Stratford, Upminster, Walthamstow, Wembley Central, Willesden Junction, Wimbledon |
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In message , Graham J
writes Finally we had one saying that it would hit those who don't use Oyster cards because many train companies refuse them (I assume he meant don't issue them). Well I don't see how that forces them to pay cash fares instead of using Pre-Pay. OK with through daily tickets there may be an issue but surely not a huge one in the scheme of things. My job takes me into London (via SWT and tube) only occasionally, for which I use one-day travel cards. How would Oyster benefit me, bearing in mind that it is not accepted by SWT? -- Paul Terry |
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TKD wrote:
Answer Unfortunately not. Many Train Operating Companies offer discounts on their Travelcards in direct relation to the quality of their past service performance. Therefore, we are unable to take into consideration any discounts offered by National Rail Train Operating Companies. This kind of defeats the main advantage of oyster - buying online. P.S. Does anyone have any info on how many National Rail stations sell Oyster? That's if you buy direct from TfL or online - there is no way they could (or would want to) calculate the discount. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...fares-2005.pdf Page 26 of this lists the NR stations selling Oyster Cards: Barking, Beckenham Junction, City Thameslink, Drayton Park, Ealing Broadway, East Croydon, Essex Road, Euston, Fenchurch Street, Finsbury Park, Greenwich, Gunnersbury, Harlesden, Harrow & Wealdstone, Kensal Green, Kensington Olympia, Kenton, Kew Gardens, Kings Cross (Thameslink), Lewisham, Limehouse, Liverpool Street, Marylebone, Mitcham Junction, New Cross, New Cross Gate, North Wembley, Queen's Park, Richmond, South Kenton, Stonebridge Park, Stratford, Upminster, Walthamstow, Wembley Central, Willesden Junction, Wimbledon Most (all?) of these are tube/tram/DLR too! Funny that :) |
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That's if you buy direct from TfL or online - there is no way they could (or would want to)
calculate the discount. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...fares-2005.pdf Page 26 of this lists the NR stations selling Oyster Cards: Barking, Beckenham Junction, City Thameslink, Drayton Park, Ealing Broadway, East Croydon, Essex Road, Euston, Fenchurch Street, Finsbury Park, Greenwich, Gunnersbury, Harlesden, Harrow & Wealdstone, Kensal Green, Kensington Olympia, Kenton, Kew Gardens, Kings Cross (Thameslink), Lewisham, Limehouse, Liverpool Street, Marylebone, Mitcham Junction, New Cross, New Cross Gate, North Wembley, Queen's Park, Richmond, South Kenton, Stonebridge Park, Stratford, Upminster, Walthamstow, Wembley Central, Willesden Junction, Wimbledon Most (all?) of these are tube/tram/DLR too! Funny that :) Yes. There isn't much incentive for say SET to start selling Oyster Cards at Bromley South. |
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On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 13:16:11 +0100, "Paul" Paul @whydoyoucare.co.uk
wrote: A single Tube journey in zone one will cost £3 instead of £2 while a single bus journey will rise from £1.20 to £1.50, said Mayor Ken Livingstone. Absolutely ridiculous. £3 per Tube ride is a sick joke, while £1.50 per bus ride is not far off what you'd pay for a few miles elsewhere in the country, but is offensively expensive for a short journey. I understand the purpose of the exercise is to encourage Oyster use, but IMO this is not the way to do it. Will this, OOI, now make taxis cheaper for a short journey than the underground? What's the minimum fare these days? Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK When replying please use neil at the above domain 'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read. |
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Neil Williams wrote:
I understand the purpose of the exercise is to encourage Oyster use, but IMO this is not the way to do it. So what is the way to do it? Abolish cash fares straight away? I now consider cash fares to be effectively abolished now anyway as I see no reason to pay in cash when it costs more. |
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http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...fares-2005.pdf
Page 26 of this lists the NR stations selling Oyster Cards: Barking, Beckenham Junction, City Thameslink, Drayton Park, Ealing Broadway, East Croydon, Essex Road, Euston, Fenchurch Street, Finsbury Park, Greenwich, Gunnersbury, Harlesden, Harrow & Wealdstone, Kensal Green, Kensington Olympia, Kenton, Kew Gardens, Kings Cross (Thameslink), Lewisham, Limehouse, Liverpool Street, Marylebone, Mitcham Junction, New Cross, New Cross Gate, North Wembley, Queen's Park, Richmond, South Kenton, Stonebridge Park, Stratford, Upminster, Walthamstow, Wembley Central, Willesden Junction, Wimbledon Most (all?) of these are tube/tram/DLR too! Funny that :) Yes. There isn't much incentive for say SET to start selling Oyster Cards at Bromley South. Do SET actually sell Oyster cards at all? I am just wondering as I've tried to get a SET-based Travelcard before from their stations (obviously for the passenger charter discount). I've tried Greenwich (who stared at me blankly as if I was talking some foreign language when I asked them) and Lewisham have a big sign saying "We are unable to issue Oyster cards or prepay at present .. sorry for the inconvience" on the ticket office windows. I saw the notice was still on there today - not that it looks like they'll be bothering to resolve that anytime soon. I've not tried New Cross though (maybe being a NR/Underground station and not a NR/DLR station makes a difference?). Just wondering if anyone has actually managed to get one, assuming they exist? It seems there is quite a difference between the NR stations Transport For Livingstone believes issues Oyster cards, and the ones that actually do. Alex. |
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On 4 Oct 2005 11:01:19 -0700, "Richard Adamfi"
wrote: So what is the way to do it? Abolish cash fares straight away? I now consider cash fares to be effectively abolished now anyway as I see no reason to pay in cash when it costs more. Cheaper fares on Oyster, not artificially and ridiculously over-expensive ones on paper. Also, look at improving access to Oyster. How about an issuing machine eating, say, gbp10 notes (and credit cards) and issuing non-registered pre-pay Oyster cards to tourists with a fiver deposit (with return machines also provided to return the deposit) and a fiver of credit? Finally, flatten and simplify the Oyster fares structure. The paper fares structure does not fit it well and introduces unnecessary complexity. And gbp3 is an absolute insult. Off-peak, you can get a ticket for unlimited train travel throughout Greater Manchester for less than that, for example. gbp2 is too much for a Zone 1 single, IMO. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK When replying please use neil at the above domain 'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read. |
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Neil Williams wrote:
Cheaper fares on Oyster, not artificially and ridiculously over-expensive ones on paper. Of course, that would be better but we have already tried that strategy this year. It would appear that many people are still paying the 2 pound cash single compared to the 1.70 Oyster fare. It is clear that a bigger differential is needed to encourage Oyster use. |
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"Neil Williams" wrote in message
... Will this, OOI, now make taxis cheaper for a short journey than the underground? What's the minimum fare these days? Minimum taxi fare is GBP 2.20. 3 pounds may well get you from one tube station to the next. For 2 people, 6 pounds would get you a decent distance in a taxi by day or night. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
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Finally we had one saying that it would hit those who don't use Oyster
cards because many train companies refuse them (I assume he meant don't issue them). Well I don't see how that forces them to pay cash fares instead of using Pre-Pay. OK with through daily tickets there may be an issue but surely not a huge one in the scheme of things. My job takes me into London (via SWT and tube) only occasionally, for which I use one-day travel cards. How would Oyster benefit me, bearing in mind that it is not accepted by SWT? It is unlikely to benefit you at all. However a dramatic increase in cash single fares and a decrease or freezing of Oyster Pre-Pay fares will not have a negative benefit on you either and that was the main thrust of today's announcement. My point was simply that there was nothing in today's anouncement that significantly penalised those who can't use Oyster cards on their train services. |
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In message , TKD
writes My job takes me into London (via SWT and tube) only occasionally, for which I use one-day travel cards. How would Oyster benefit me, bearing in mind that it is not accepted by SWT? Oyster is only intended for journeys made wholly within London. My journeys are made wholly within London (all, in fact, within 8 miles of the centre). As I said before, they are part by SWT, followed by tube for the most central part. So, try again - how would Oyster help me? Are you suggesting that I should pay twice for a journey that I can now do on a single Travel Card ? -- Paul Terry |
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"Paul Terry" wrote in message ... In message , TKD writes My job takes me into London (via SWT and tube) only occasionally, for which I use one-day travel cards. How would Oyster benefit me, bearing in mind that it is not accepted by SWT? Oyster is only intended for journeys made wholly within London. My journeys are made wholly within London (all, in fact, within 8 miles of the centre). As I said before, they are part by SWT, followed by tube for the most central part. So, try again - how would Oyster help me? Are you suggesting that I should pay twice for a journey that I can now do on a single Travel Card ? -- Paul Terry Ah. "My job takes me into London" suggested you had come from outside. |
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Paul wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4307770.stm Tubes and buses hit by fare hike (snip) However fares will fall for holders of the Oyster pre-pay smartcards. There will be much debate about the rights and wrongs of the increase in cash single fares on the Tubes and buses, but the BBC News story story contains the critical information on how to avoid these fares increases. And that is to ***get an Oyster card and start using the Pre Pay system to pay for single fares on the Tubes and buses***. It is that simple. The problem is people get horrendously confused by the Oyster card system, confusing the two functions it has - that it can be loaded with a Travelcard season ticket, and that it can be loaded with Pre Pay 'credit'. (It is true that those two functions are linked - in the sense that when travelling on routes that accept Pre Pay - i.e. all of the Underground and a few National Rail routes - those with a Travelcard season ticket loaded on their Oyster card will automatically have the appropriate sum deducted from their Pre Pay should they travel outside of the zones covered by their Travelcard. However this advanced functionality is irrelevant for those who merely wish to make a journey or two on a Tube or bus and are currently paying by cash.) So, go and get an Oyster and tell everyone you know to do the same. To get an Oyster card online go to http://www.oystercard.com, and select 'Create account' from the menu on the left hand side of the screen. Once you've created your account, either click on 'Get an Oyster card' in the same left hand menu or click on the 'Order a new Oyster card' link in the centre of the screen. On the next screen click on 'buy Pre Pay'. You can get a card with between £10 and £50 of Pre Pay already loaded on it delivered to your address. There is a £3 deposit, refundable should you wish to ever return the card. Voila - your card will arrive within a week. |
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On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 20:04:57 +0100, Paul Terry
wrote: My journeys are made wholly within London (all, in fact, within 8 miles of the centre). As I said before, they are part by SWT, followed by tube for the most central part. So, try again - how would Oyster help me? Are you suggesting that I should pay twice for a journey that I can now do on a single Travel Card ? For casual use, Oyster pre-pay isn't for you. Until national rail stop resisting the pre-pay system. It does seem unfair that your one-day card will cost a little more on paper than on Oyster. |
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Richard Adamfi wrote:
Neil Williams wrote: I understand the purpose of the exercise is to encourage Oyster use, but IMO this is not the way to do it. So what is the way to do it? How about installing Oyster readers in all London train stations? *Then* TFL can start shoving oysters down people's necks. If you use a travelcard on national rail stick to a paper ticket. With Oyster you pay *more* money. What a con. -- Paul |
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On 4 Oct 2005 14:57:10 -0700, "Paul" wrote:
How about installing Oyster readers in all London train stations? *Then* TFL can start shoving oysters down people's necks. They're there. They work on period tickets. But the train companies don't seem to want to wire them up to the pre-pay system. |
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On 4 Oct 2005 14:57:10 -0700, "Paul" wrote:
How about installing Oyster readers in all London train stations? *Then* TFL can start shoving oysters down people's necks. They already are installed at every station in London that has barriers (except Romford). At stations without barriers, they would serve no purpose anyway (you don't need to touch in/out if you have a Travelcard season). If you use a travelcard on national rail stick to a paper ticket. With Oyster you pay *more* money. What a con. If you buy your Travelcard on Oyster from South West Trains (not sure about other TOCs) they give you the same discount for poor performance that you'd get with their paper version. |
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In article ,
Laurence Payne wrote: For casual use, Oyster pre-pay isn't for you. Until national rail stop resisting the pre-pay system. It does seem unfair that your one-day card will cost a little more on paper than on Oyster. ODTs can be bought at "Ticket Stops" (ie, newsagents) on Oyster these days... can't they? -- Mike Bristow - really a very good driver |
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Mike Bristow wrote:
In article , Laurence Payne wrote: For casual use, Oyster pre-pay isn't for you. Until national rail stop resisting the pre-pay system. It does seem unfair that your one-day card will cost a little more on paper than on Oyster. ODTs can be bought at "Ticket Stops" (ie, newsagents) on Oyster these days... can't they? You can't get an ODT on Oyster. But you can get Oyster Pre-Pay which is capped at the ODT rate or less (for journeys on TfL services). However you have to pay a £3 deposit to get an Oyster card. If they really want to encourage Oyster use, they should waive the deposit, or waive it if at least, say, £10 is loaded on to an Oyster Pre-Pay. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
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In article ,
lid (asdf) wrote: On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 22:24 +0100 (BST), (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote: Absolutely! No Oyster in Cambridge or Putney. But the fare increases won't affect journeys from those stations. They will for overnight stays. These include tube travel in central London to work when I have to buy tube singles, currently £2 (Zone 1) or £2.20 (Zones 1 & 2). In which case you can pay less (and the fares will actually *decrease* from 2006) if you use Oyster pre-pay for those singles. So I have to get an Oyster for what is in fact just two tickets so far this year. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
... So I have to get an Oyster for what is in fact just two tickets so far this year. And make sure you have it on you whenever you might need it... which in practice means all the time... and sooner or later, you'll end up permanently carrying a different smart card for each city where you might want to ride a bus, and have a 3 pound deposit on all of them. Maybe you should go everywhere by car, at least that way you could carry all the public transport smartcards in the glovebox. I don't have an Oyster. For the small amount that I use public transport these days, it wouldn't make that much sense. I haven't yet run out of the bus savers I bought before the fares went through the roof in January. But TfL are so determined to fine those of us who persist in thinking of our own convenience instead of theirs. Maybe they should abolish 75% of the bus stops while they are at it, since their convenience is so much more important than ours. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
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