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Old June 7th 06, 11:39 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default FCC compensation for days of disruption Bedford to Brighton line

Extract from letter to FCC re the above:

"I am writing to you because I believe FCC owes me some compensation for
delays to your services on 21 and 27 April.
I put in two claim forms on 27 April at my home station of St Albans. I also
e-mailed you about the delay on the same date.
On 17 May I received a letter from you stating that you are "unable to
compensate" me under the FCC Delay Repay Scheme. This may be strictly
speaking correct, but surely you can compensate me under some other scheme?
A scheme set up by yourselves for your customers who are still Thameslink
ticket holders, for example?
If you cannot it means two things, one, that I am being treated differently
from someone holding a season ticket issued by FCC travelling the same route
and on the same day having paid the same price. That is, of course, called
discrimination.
The other is that you as a company are almost certainly in breach of the
Transfer of Undertakings and Protection of Employment Regulations (be that
the 1981 or the 2006 regs), since it is very likely that the transfer of the
franchise from Thameslink to yourselves was a TUPE transfer. Where TUPE
applies the transferee takes on the transferor's liabilities as well as
their rights. Applied to your passengers it means quite simply that where
Thameslink compensated you have to too. Thameslink would pay compensation
for severe disruption on particular days, I would suggest that is also your
obligation.
I am also aware that other customers have had exactly the same complaint
reported in the local press (Herts Advertiser June 1).
I would be most grateful if you would now pay me the compensation I am owed.
"

Marķa



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Old June 8th 06, 12:12 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default FCC compensation for days of disruption Bedford to Brighton line

Marķa wrote:
Extract from letter to FCC re the above:

"I am writing to you because I believe FCC owes me some
compensation for delays to your services on 21 and 27 April.
I put in two claim forms on 27 April at my home station of St
Albans. I also e-mailed you about the delay on the same date.
On 17 May I received a letter from you stating that you are "unable
to compensate" me under the FCC Delay Repay Scheme. This may be
strictly speaking correct, but surely you can compensate me under
some other scheme? A scheme set up by yourselves for your customers
who are still Thameslink ticket holders, for example?
If you cannot it means two things, one, that I am being treated
differently from someone holding a season ticket issued by FCC
travelling the same route and on the same day having paid the same
price. That is, of course, called discrimination.
The other is that you as a company are almost certainly in breach
of the Transfer of Undertakings and Protection of Employment
Regulations (be that the 1981 or the 2006 regs), since it is very
likely that the transfer of the franchise from Thameslink to
yourselves was a TUPE transfer. Where TUPE applies the transferee
takes on the transferor's liabilities as well as their rights.


TUPE is concerned with *employment* rights and liabilities. The
transferee takes on the transferor's liabilities in connection with
contracts of employment. The TUPE regulations are not concerned with
*customer* contracts and associated liabilities. It may or may not be
true that FCC must abide by the conditions under which you bought a
season ticket from Thameslink, but TUPE is irrelevant to that issue.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

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Old June 8th 06, 07:23 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default FCC compensation for days of disruption Bedford to Brighton line

On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 23:39:29 +0100, "Marķa"
wrote:

Extract from letter to FCC re the above:

"I am writing to you because I believe FCC owes me some compensation for
delays to your services on 21 and 27 April.
I put in two claim forms on 27 April at my home station of St Albans. I also
e-mailed you about the delay on the same date.
On 17 May I received a letter from you stating that you are "unable to
compensate" me under the FCC Delay Repay Scheme. This may be strictly
speaking correct, but surely you can compensate me under some other scheme?
A scheme set up by yourselves for your customers who are still Thameslink
ticket holders, for example?
If you cannot it means two things, one, that I am being treated differently
from someone holding a season ticket issued by FCC travelling the same route
and on the same day having paid the same price. That is, of course, called
discrimination.
The other is that you as a company are almost certainly in breach of the
Transfer of Undertakings and Protection of Employment Regulations (be that
the 1981 or the 2006 regs), since it is very likely that the transfer of the
franchise from Thameslink to yourselves was a TUPE transfer. Where TUPE
applies the transferee takes on the transferor's liabilities as well as
their rights. Applied to your passengers it means quite simply that where
Thameslink compensated you have to too. Thameslink would pay compensation
for severe disruption on particular days, I would suggest that is also your
obligation.
I am also aware that other customers have had exactly the same complaint
reported in the local press (Herts Advertiser June 1).
I would be most grateful if you would now pay me the compensation I am owed.
"


You cannot expect FCC to recognise your inappropriate interpolation of
the TUPE legislation from employee rights to those relating to a ticket
refund scheme. The two issues have no relationship.

The only grounds you would have is whether the FCC franchise agreement
obliges FCC to honour any arrangement that applied under the GoVia
franchise in respect of ticket refunds for poor performance. I would
not expect a new franchisee to agree to be bound by the previous
operator's commercial parameters as the new franchise is almost
certainly put together on a different basis with different performance
levels. I also strongly doubt that the contract between you and FCC in
respect of your ticket would afford you any rights to compensation -
either on the GoVia or FCC terms.

Good luck in your complaint but I'd be amazed if you get anywhere.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!
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Old June 10th 06, 06:29 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default FCC compensation for days of disruption Bedford to Brighton line

On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 19:23:43 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 23:39:29 +0100, "Marķa"
wrote:

Extract from letter to FCC re the above:

"I am writing to you because I believe FCC owes me some compensation for
delays to your services on 21 and 27 April.
I put in two claim forms on 27 April at my home station of St Albans. I also
e-mailed you about the delay on the same date.
On 17 May I received a letter from you stating that you are "unable to
compensate" me under the FCC Delay Repay Scheme. This may be strictly
speaking correct, but surely you can compensate me under some other scheme?
A scheme set up by yourselves for your customers who are still Thameslink
ticket holders, for example?
"


You cannot expect FCC to recognise your inappropriate interpolation of
the TUPE legislation from employee rights to those relating to a ticket
refund scheme. The two issues have no relationship.

The only grounds you would have is whether the FCC franchise agreement
obliges FCC to honour any arrangement that applied under the GoVia
franchise in respect of ticket refunds for poor performance. I would
not expect a new franchisee to agree to be bound by the previous
operator's commercial parameters as the new franchise is almost
certainly put together on a different basis with different performance
levels. I also strongly doubt that the contract between you and FCC in
respect of your ticket would afford you any rights to compensation -
either on the GoVia or FCC terms.


On the contrary, I would expect that the franchise requires FCC is
required to honour all season tickets issued by Thameslink and the
related conditions. Otherwise it woulde have been fraudulent for
Thameslink to sell any seasons lasting beyond the end of the
franchise.

Good luck in your complaint but I'd be amazed if you get anywhere.


FCc response in the local press seems to suggest that these rejections
were an aberration and so the complaint may succeed.

--
Peter Lawrence
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Old June 10th 06, 11:02 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default FCC compensation for days of disruption Bedford to Brighton line

Peter Lawrence wrote:
On the contrary, I would expect that the franchise requires FCC is
required to honour all season tickets issued by Thameslink and the
related conditions.


From what I've seen and heard, Wagn (and likely Thameslink) season

ticket holders are still bound to the original NatExp/GoVia terms &
conditions. Only when I renew my ticket in December will I be a
'proper' FCC customer.

Jonathan



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Old June 14th 06, 01:49 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default FCC compensation for days of disruption Bedford to Brighton line

In article ,
says...
Extract from letter to FCC re the above:

"I am writing to you because I believe FCC owes me some compensation for
delays to your services on 21 and 27 April.
I put in two claim forms on 27 April at my home station of St Albans. I also
e-mailed you about the delay on the same date.
On 17 May I received a letter from you stating that you are "unable to
compensate" me under the FCC Delay Repay Scheme. This may be strictly
speaking correct, but surely you can compensate me under some other scheme?
A scheme set up by yourselves for your customers who are still Thameslink
ticket holders, for example?


From the FCC Passenger Charter:
(
http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/pages/about-
us/commitment/FCC_Passenger_charter_22_03.pdf)

-----
"Please note: if you have a monthly or longer season ticket that was
purchased before 1 April 2006, the terms of the Passenger=3Fs Charter
which applied at the time you bought your ticket continue to apply.
This means that:
=3F If you choose to renew your season ticket and a discount is
applicable because of poor punctuality and/or reliability, we will still
give you that discount based on the Passenger=3Fs Charter which
applied to your season ticket prior to 1 April 2006 on the first
occasion you do so after 1 April 2006. The compensation
parameters for the previous operators, Thameslink and WAGN, are
shown below in sections 6.3.1 and 6.3.2 and are direct extracts from
their Passenger=3Fs Charters, further information may be obtained from
our customer relations department; and
=3F The =3FDelay Repay=3F scheme described above will not apply to you
until after you have renewed your season ticket for the first time after
1 April 2006."
-----

Therefore if you are holding a WAGN issued season ticket, you are not
entitled to compensation for individual delays as FCC issued season
ticket holders are. Your compensation will be received when you renew
your season ticket if the punctuality and reliability targets have not
been achieved. Again from the FCC Passenger Charter:

-----
"6.3.2 Previous operator, WAGN
Customers with season tickets valid for one month or longer:
Compensation is dictated by the service standards we have achieved
during the previous 12 months and how these compare to the
Performance Threshold for your service group.
Performance Threshold:
=3F Punctuality is 3% below the standard I.e. 88% over the previous
12 months; or
=3F Reliability is 1% below the standard I.e. 98% over the previous
12 months.
When you come to renew your season ticket, if in the previous year for
your
own service group, we failed to achieve one of the published Performance
Thresholds, we will give you a discount of 5% off your next ticket.
If we failed to achieve both Performance Thresholds, we will give you a
discount of 10% off your next ticket. These discounts apply only to
tickets
renewed when the standard achieved is below the Performance
Threshold. To qualify for a discount, you must renew your season ticket
within four weeks of the expiry of the old one, it must be for the same
journey, and be for the same or a shorter period."
-----

Duncan
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Old July 24th 06, 09:11 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 329
Default FCC compensation for days of disruption Bedford to Brighton line

Jonathan Morris wrote:
Peter Lawrence wrote:
On the contrary, I would expect that the franchise requires FCC is
required to honour all season tickets issued by Thameslink and the
related conditions.


From what I've seen and heard, Wagn (and likely Thameslink) season

ticket holders are still bound to the original NatExp/GoVia terms &
conditions. Only when I renew my ticket in December will I be a
'proper' FCC customer.


Having just checked the "Void Days" table, it would seem that the only
days owing for the "Thameslink North" service group in the past 13 four
week periods are as follows:

2005-08-01, 2005-11-09, 2005-11-11 (PM Peak Only), 2006-04-21

Total: 3.5 days

Along with a 5% Punctuality discount for the first renewal of monthly or
longer season tickets issued before 2006-04-01 (when FCC took over the
franchise).

The OP doesn't mention what period season ticket she has, so I can't be
certain whether she can still claim any of those "void" days. That is
something she'd need to enquire of her local Ticket Office.

Cheers,

Barry


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