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St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?/British Standard BS7666.
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St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
Dave Arquati wrote: * depending on which maps you consult (A-Z or Bart's) and whether you prefer the LB Hammersmith & Fulham's usage (which rarely includes an apostrophe on anything Bush-related). -- What happened to the publication "Nicholson's London Streetfinder"? It was much better than the A thru Z. Adrian. |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
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St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?/British Standard BS7666.
On 29 Jun 2006 16:29:00 -0700, "Adrian Auer-Hudson, MIMIS"
wrote: Richard J. wrote: wrote: Richard Rundle wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Richard Rundle wrote: want to look at British Standard BS7666. Thank you. I did a Google search on "British Standard BS7666". It returned some excellent information about UK Mailing Address structures. I noted the absence of punctuation. However, I didn't notice anything directly relating to street name sign posting. Maybe I need to dig a little deeper. This was great information. It's more to do with geographic address than postal addresses Indeed, that was apparent. This standard looks as if it could be a real help in real estate transactions. I am thinking in terms of both statutory bodies and real estate agents. Some of the elements (fields) laid out in the standard are very similar to those required in a UK mailing address. The odd one is were a unitary authority may be required instead of a County. Then, again the use of counties in UK addresses is unusual compared with other territories and inconsistent. E.g. So many postal towns now longer need to be qualified by a county. *No* UK postal addresses now need the county to be included. I find it irritating when websites ask for your address with the county as a mandatory field. Many of them will not accept an address in the form 123 Xyz Road, London, [postcode]. You are forced either to enter London twice or to insert an unnecessary district name such as Acton in place of the town name. Which County is BRISTOL in these days? And, is it EDINBURGH Midlothian (the old county) or EDINBURGH Lothian Neither, most cities didn't need to be further qualified with a county name in an address. Edinburgh was and is generally in Midlothian for those contexts which require a county. (the new region)? The now defunct (for several years) region. What happened to those exceptions like MILTON KEYNES? Excepted in what way ? -- _______ +---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //| | Charles Ellson: | | \\ // | +---------------------------------------------------+ | | | // \\ | Alba gu brath |//___\\| |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?/British Standard BS7666.
On 30 Jun 2006 10:42:51 -0700, wrote:
Richard M Willis wrote: "Adrian Auer-Hudson, MIMIS" wrote in message Which County is BRISTOL in these days? And, is it EDINBURGH Midlothian (the old county) or EDINBURGH Lothian (the new region)?What happened to those exceptions like MILTON KEYNES? Counties are a historical oddity. Just addressing an envelope to ..... Bristol BSx xxx is sufficient. In fact, the conurbation of Bristol might spread across multiple counties. I don't know. Bristol was part in Gloucestershire and part in Somerset. That applies to what is now Bristol but IIRC it was originally all on the Gloucestershire side of the river, the south side (Bedminster and Knowle ?) being part of the town/conurbation but not of the actual city, being merely bits of Somerset. This may have been unique. It was certainly unusual. For a time it was in Avon. Now Bristol seems to be a County. It was previously (pre-*von) "City and County of" but IMU no local authority devoid of subsidiary authorities is currently classified as a "county" for local government purposes, although other bits of officialdom or semi-officialdom might continue to do so. -- _______ +---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //| | Charles Ellson: | | \\ // | +---------------------------------------------------+ | | | // \\ | Alba gu brath |//___\\| |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?/British Standard BS7666.
Charles Ellson wrote: On 29 Jun 2006 16:29:00 -0700, "Adrian Auer-Hudson, MIMIS" wrote: Richard J. wrote: *No* UK postal addresses now need the county to be included. I find it irritating when websites ask for your address with the county as a mandatory field. Many of them will not accept an address in the form 123 Xyz Road, London, [postcode]. You are forced either to enter London twice or to insert an unnecessary district name such as Acton in place of the town name. Which County is BRISTOL in these days? And, is it EDINBURGH Midlothian (the old county) or EDINBURGH Lothian Neither, most cities didn't need to be further qualified with a county name in an address. Edinburgh was and is generally in Midlothian for those contexts which require a county. (the new region)? The now defunct (for several years) region. What happened to those exceptions like MILTON KEYNES? Excepted in what way ? -- Let me endeavor to explain: I misunderstood the function of the asterisks in "*No* UK postal addresses now need the county to be included." I read the phase as "No, UK postal addresses now need the county to be included." In that understanding I asked the question about exceptions because I believed that there was a long list of Postal Towns that did NOT need qualification with a county name. However, a second reading leads me to believe that Richard J meant "No UK postal addresses now need the county to be included". This being the exact opposite meaning. So Milton Keynes is not an exception because, now, no postal towns need to be qualified by a county name. Thank you for expalaining that the Scottish regions have gone. They never seamed very meaningful to me. I much preferred the counties. Are the counties back? What happened to Strathclyde? Am I right in thinking there is still a Strathclyde PTE? Thanks Adrian, http://www.losangelesmetro.net/author/ |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?/British Standard BS7666.
Charles Ellson wrote: On 30 Jun 2006 10:42:51 -0700, wrote: IMU no local authority devoid of subsidiary authorities is currently classified as a "county" for local government purposes, although other bits of officialdom or semi-officialdom might continue to do so. -- _______ Isn't the Isle of Wight a County devoid of subsidiary components? Adrian. |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?/British Standard BS7666.
"Charles Ellson" wrote It [Bristol] was previously (pre-*von) "City and County of" but IMU no local authority devoid of subsidiary authorities is currently classified as a "county" for local government purposes, although other bits of officialdom or semi-officialdom might continue to do so. Clive Feather pointed out in an earlier thread that some (all?) unitary authorities are defined as counties in the statutory instruments covering their creation, but I think you are correct if you mean that they are not regarded as counties by most people - except perhaps for one or two special cases (like Bristol?) Conversely, some counties (e.g. the metropolitan counties) seem to exist even though they have no council. |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?/British Standard BS7666.
In article .com,
() wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: On 30 Jun 2006 10:42:51 -0700, wrote: IMU no local authority devoid of subsidiary authorities is currently classified as a "county" for local government purposes, although other bits of officialdom or semi-officialdom might continue to do so. _______ Isn't the Isle of Wight a County devoid of subsidiary components? The best measure is probably where they have their own Lords Lieutenant. Bristol and the Isle of Wight do. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?/British Standard BS7666.
On 30 Jun 2006 16:44:34 -0700, wrote:
Charles Ellson wrote: On 30 Jun 2006 10:42:51 -0700, wrote: IMU no local authority devoid of subsidiary authorities is currently classified as a "county" for local government purposes, although other bits of officialdom or semi-officialdom might continue to do so. -- _______ Isn't the Isle of Wight a County devoid of subsidiary components? The only current mention of "county" seems to be in the name of their HQ which seems to be basically a case of not "fixing" an established address. It has actually got "subsidiary authorities" in the form of town/community councils (which I'd forgotten about) but not in the form which I had in mind of authorities which provide day-to-day council services (e.g. roads, rubbish, welfare, etc.). -- _______ +---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //| | Charles Ellson: | | \\ // | +---------------------------------------------------+ | | | // \\ | Alba gu brath |//___\\| |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?/British Standard BS7666.
On 30 Jun 2006 16:41:09 -0700, wrote:
snip Thank you for expalaining that the Scottish regions have gone. They never seamed very meaningful to me. I much preferred the counties. Are the counties back? All are now single tier "Councils" in "Council Areas", some of which bear a remarkable similarity to the traditional cities and counties. What happened to Strathclyde? Generally, functions passed to what were the district councils with "joint boards" (formed with reps from councils) to manage what remained from districts+regions days, mainly fire and police. Am I right in thinking there is still a Strathclyde PTE? No, there's now a "son of", see:- http://www.spt.co.uk/about/index.html although there's possibly not much difference to the passengers. The only "next-nearest-to-a-PTE" (buses-only public authority transport operator) in Scotland seems now to be trading as Lothian Buses:- http://www.lothianbuses.co.uk/ which unless I've missed something is the jointly-owned (East, West and Mid-Lothian councils) Lothian Region Transport in disguise. -- _______ +---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //| | Charles Ellson: | | \\ // | +---------------------------------------------------+ | | | // \\ | Alba gu brath |//___\\| |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?/British Standard BS7666.
In article . com writes:
Richard M Willis wrote: Surely, counties are not needed at all on postal addresses ? All I usually give is Persun's Name xxx StreetName postcode It is a while since I have seen a Royal Mail Manual covering the subject. It used to state that Counties are required followed the Post Town with exceptions. The list of exceptions was very long. Ah, in the Netherlands it is much easier. Postal code plus house number is sufficient to get the mail delivered. So when you look at my signature it is overcomplete. 1025 JN 215 is enough to deliver without any further indication, you do not even need to state my name. -- dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131 home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/ |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?/British Standard BS7666.
On Sat, 1 Jul 2006 01:26:04 GMT, "Dik T. Winter"
wrote: In article . com writes: Richard M Willis wrote: Surely, counties are not needed at all on postal addresses ? All I usually give is Persun's Name xxx StreetName postcode It is a while since I have seen a Royal Mail Manual covering the subject. It used to state that Counties are required followed the Post Town with exceptions. The list of exceptions was very long. Ah, in the Netherlands it is much easier. Postal code plus house number is sufficient to get the mail delivered. So when you look at my signature it is overcomplete. 1025 JN 215 is enough to deliver without any further indication, you do not even need to state my name. In most cases postcode and house number will get a letter delivered in the UK but one single simple error can send the letter somewhere very different. The postcode is principally a device for Royal Mail's use and is not readily translatable by the majority of people whereas an address has much wider usage. In the absence any other public authority defining addresses in a uniform manner it is the RM definition which in practice has universal usage when premises need to be located, but minimising the presented information increases the risk of confusion of same- or similatly-names places. Although the county is not regarded by RM as a required address detail it still exists within the RM system, usually seen as a deciding detail where a postcode is requested for an address in a place whose name is not unique or is almost the same as another place elsewhere in the country. -- _______ +---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //| | Charles Ellson: | | \\ // | +---------------------------------------------------+ | | | // \\ | Alba gu brath |//___\\| |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 23:53:57 +0100, Charles Ellson
wrote: What happened to the publication "Nicholson's London Streetfinder"? Probably now branded as "Collins" (if still published), my 1995 Nicholson Greater London Street Atlas carrying the information "a division of HarperCollinsPublishers [sic]". I think it's still published as the Collins street atlas. The A5-ish version covers a slightly different area to the similarly-sized A-Z, it includes more of the SW London/Surrey bit and a bit less of North London. Or it did when I lived in New Malden. |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:15:53 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote: Ned Carlson wrote: What I'm wondering, is HTF did apostrophes get into the English language, anyway? None of its ancestor/contributing languages (Anglo-Saxon, Norse, French, Celtic) use or used apostrophes, did they? Modern Dutch uses apostrophes in the plural of certain (or all?) nouns ending in a long single vowel, such as "2 taxi's" or "3 piano's". So does English... German uses the apostrophe for the possessive of personal nouns, rather like english, eg Adolf's. |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
"Phil Clark" wrote:
Modern Dutch uses apostrophes in the plural of certain (or all?) nouns ending in a long single vowel, such as "2 taxi's" or "3 piano's". So does English... No it doesn't. -- "For want of the price of tea and a slice, the old man died." |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?/British Standard BS7666.
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St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?/British Standard BS7666.
"Charles Ellson" wrote There's a certain amount of Alice in Wonderland in the way that descriptions and definitions are used in English local government arrangements nowadays. I have to agree with you on that! |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?/British Standard BS7666.
"Charles Ellson" wrote wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: wrote: IMU no local authority devoid of subsidiary authorities is currently classified as a "county" for local government purposes, although other bits of officialdom or semi-officialdom might continue to do so. Isn't the Isle of Wight a County devoid of subsidiary components? The only current mention of "county" seems to be in the name of their HQ which seems to be basically a case of not "fixing" an established address. It has actually got "subsidiary authorities" in the form of town/community councils (which I'd forgotten about) but not in the form which I had in mind of authorities which provide day-to-day council services (e.g. roads, rubbish, welfare, etc.). I think some parish and district councillors might get upset at the suggestion that their councils are in any way subsidiary to the council of the county in which they are located. Although county, district and parish councils (community councils in Wales) are sometimes described as 1st, 2nd and 3rd tier authorities, they are independent in terms of their decision-making and precept setting, not being answerable to the tier or tiers above them. |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 13:46:01 GMT, "AstraVanMan"
wrote: "Phil Clark" wrote: Modern Dutch uses apostrophes in the plural of certain (or all?) nouns ending in a long single vowel, such as "2 taxi's" or "3 piano's". So does English... No it doesn't. I should have used a smiley for irony but couldn't think of one... My current pet hate is panini's, which is wrong on two counts. |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
"Phil Clark" wrote:
No it doesn't. I should have used a smiley for irony but couldn't think of one... My current pet hate is panini's, which is wrong on two counts. Arse. My irony recognition system obviously needs upgrading - I'm normally the first to whinge about people not getting irony. I often wonder that if aliens were to visit earth, what they'd go away thinking was the correct way to use the English language..... -- "For want of the price of tea and a slice, the old man died." |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 22:52:32 GMT, "AstraVanMan"
wrote: "Phil Clark" wrote: No it doesn't. I should have used a smiley for irony but couldn't think of one... My current pet hate is panini's, which is wrong on two counts. Arse. My irony recognition system obviously needs upgrading - I'm normally the first to whinge about people not getting irony. I often wonder that if aliens were to visit earth, what they'd go away thinking was the correct way to use the English language..... I thought all aliens spoke 'Merkan ? -- _______ +---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //| | Charles Ellson: | | \\ // | +---------------------------------------------------+ | | | // \\ | Alba gu brath |//___\\| |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 Charles Ellson wrote:
On 30 Jun 2006 14:23:07 -0700, wrote: Dave Arquati wrote: * depending on which maps you consult (A-Z or Bart's) and whether you prefer the LB Hammersmith & Fulham's usage (which rarely includes an apostrophe on anything Bush-related). -- What happened to the publication "Nicholson's London Streetfinder"? Probably now branded as "Collins" (if still published), my 1995 Nicholson Greater London Street Atlas carrying the information "a division of HarperCollinsPublishers [sic]". It was much better than the A thru Z. If you mean an A-Z, anything used to be better but they seem to improved in more recent years although whoever's name appears in the big print, the small print usually credits the Ordnance Survey. Speaking of London atlases and apostrophes, the best atlas I have come across is Philip's Street Atlas London, published by Philip's. Those apostrophes are fine. But I also have, dating from an earlier age, Philips' Modern School Atlas, published by George Philip & Son Ltd. I wonder what that one is doing there. -- Thoss |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
Phil Clark wrote:
On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 13:46:01 GMT, "AstraVanMan" wrote: "Phil Clark" wrote: Modern Dutch uses apostrophes in the plural of certain (or all?) nouns ending in a long single vowel, such as "2 taxi's" or "3 piano's". So does English... No it doesn't. I should have used a smiley for irony but couldn't think of one... My current pet hate is panini's, which is wrong on two counts. Three. -- http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9632972.html (43 136 at Cardiff Central, 30 Jun 1999) |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
"Phil Clark" wrote in message ... On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 13:46:01 GMT, "AstraVanMan" wrote: "Phil Clark" wrote: Modern Dutch uses apostrophes in the plural of certain (or all?) nouns ending in a long single vowel, such as "2 taxi's" or "3 piano's". So does English... No it doesn't. I should have used a smiley for irony but couldn't think of one... I use this one Fe] My current pet hate is panini's, which is wrong on two counts. Is panini already a plural word ? Richard [in PE12] -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 09:54:57 +0100, "Richard M Willis"
wrote: My current pet hate is panini's, which is wrong on two counts. Is panini already a plural word ? Yes, the singular is panino. And if it wasn't already plural it wouldn't need the apostrophe. Not sure what Chris Tolley's third error is. |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
Phil Clark wrote:
On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 09:54:57 +0100, "Richard M Willis" wrote: My current pet hate is panini's, which is wrong on two counts. Is panini already a plural word ? Yes, the singular is panino. And if it wasn't already plural it wouldn't need the apostrophe. Not sure what Chris Tolley's third error is. You didn't the word in quotation marks. ;-) -- http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p14486548.html (FY SW1001 44 (no TOPS class) at Merehead, 26 Jun 1994) |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
Chris Tolley wrote:
Phil Clark wrote: On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 09:54:57 +0100, "Richard M Willis" wrote: My current pet hate is panini's, which is wrong on two counts. Is panini already a plural word ? Yes, the singular is panino. And if it wasn't already plural it wouldn't need the apostrophe. Not sure what Chris Tolley's third error is. You didn't the word in quotation marks. ;-) The Hound of the Pedantvilles strikes again. ... didn't *put* the ... -- http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683757.html (142 095 at Harrogate, 29 May 1999) |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
In article Phil Clark writes:
On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 09:54:57 +0100, "Richard M Willis" wrote: My current pet hate is panini's, which is wrong on two counts. Is panini already a plural word ? Yes, the singular is panino. And if it wasn't already plural it wouldn't need the apostrophe. I tend to disagree. What is plural in one language can very well become singular in another language. Whether it was plural in the original lanuage does not matter very much. -- dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131 home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/ |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
Charles Ellson wrote:
If you mean an A-Z, anything used to be better Better in what way? I always hated the Nicholson's. |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 03:27:08 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: If you mean an A-Z, anything used to be better Better in what way? Starting with the current subject, many details pertaining to railways were well out of date (The appearance of "LMS", "LNER" and "GWR" in many places tended to give a warning. Is Shepherds Bush still marked CLR?) and a lot of the roads weren't much better, but as I also said:- but they seem to improved in more recent years I always hated the Nicholson's. There's not a lot of difference for London now that they all seem to be O.S.-derived mapping presented via different colour schemes. The Nicholson's (possibly now merged and re-named) AFAIAA is the only one which has reasonable coverage of the intra-M25 area, in the past some other atlases labelled as "Greater London" failed to cover the entire county never mind the extended conurbation, missing out odd bits at the periphery (even though they were inhabited) or showing them at a reduced scale. -- _______ +---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //| | Charles Ellson: | | \\ // | +---------------------------------------------------+ | | | // \\ | Alba gu brath |//___\\| |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
Dik T. Winter wrote:
What is plural in one language can very well become singular in another language. Whether it was plural in the original lanuage does not matter very much. Generally, I agree. But some specific cases do get up my nose. e.g. I couldn't care less when people talk about the operas they have seen (opera being a Latin plural of opus). But for some reason it irritates me when one of those Afghani fundamentalist Muslims isn't called a "taleb". (Though on the scale of linguistic irritation, that does come lower than when people talk about "one pence coins"). -- http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p13309738.html (47 365 at Birmingham New Street, 15 Sep 1979) |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006, Dik T. Winter wrote:
Phil Clark writes: On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 09:54:57 +0100, "Richard M Willis" Is panini already a plural word ? Yes, the singular is panino. As well as "salame" is the singular of "salami" ... .... as native italian improper usage of the plural form sounds to me at least funny when not irritating ... I tend to disagree. What is plural in one language can very well become singular in another language. Whether it was plural in the original lanuage does not matter very much. I tend to disagree with the latter statement as a matter of principle, although it might be correct as an observation of actual usage. In italian we have the rule that foreign words are invariable, so one should always use the singular form even at the plural (we have singular and plural articles ... and genders too). But there are some curious practical (not codified) exceptions : the spanish word "murales" is common for "wall paintings", and the other spanish word "peones" is common to indicate "unqualified" members of parliament (not party leaders, not chairmen of committees etc.) ... both are plural forms, but commonly used also at the singular. I guess a spaniard will feel like me when I hear "one panini" -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- is a newsreading account used by more persons to avoid unwanted spam. Any mail returning to this address will be rejected. Users can disclose their e-mail address in the article if they wish so. |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
"Chris Tolley" wrote in message lower than when people talk about "one pence coins"). What is wrong with "one pence coins" ? Richard [inSG19] -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
"thoss" wrote:
Those apostrophes are fine. But I also have, dating from an earlier age, Philips' Modern School Atlas, published by George Philip & Son Ltd. I wonder what that one is doing there. If it was father and son, then presumably there were two Philips. -- Dave Fossett Saitama, Japan http://jtrains.fotopic.net/ |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
In message , at 09:16:52 on
Mon, 3 Jul 2006, Richard M Willis remarked: What is wrong with "one pence coins" ? Linguistically should be "One Penny coins", and whatever the merits of an argument that the currency is called Pounds and Pence (of which the coin has a value of Zero pounds and one pence), the coin *does* have "One Penny" written on it. And you wouldn't call a £1 coin a "One Pounds Coin", would you? (Which you would by analogy with "Pounds and Pence") -- Roland Perry |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
Richard M Willis wrote:
"Chris Tolley" wrote in message lower than when people talk about "one pence coins"). What is wrong with "one pence coins" ? Read one and see for yourself. -- http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p12906833.html (47 331 at Bescot, 25 Apr 1999) |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 Richard M Willis wrote:
What is wrong with "one pence coins" ? Exactly the same thing as is wrong in, say, "one pounds coins". -- Thoss |
St Johns Wood or St John's Wood?
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 09:16:52 on Mon, 3 Jul 2006, Richard M Willis remarked: What is wrong with "one pence coins" ? Linguistically should be "One Penny coins", and whatever the merits of an argument that the currency is called Pounds and Pence (of which the coin has a value of Zero pounds and one pence), the coin *does* have "One Penny" written on it. Hmm. I measure things in metres, centimetres and millimetres. I don't call this "m AND cm AND mm". Consequently, I would call our currency pounds xor pence. "penny" does not exist as far as I am concerned. "one-pence coin","one-hundred-pence coin", "one-deci-pound coin", "five-hundred-pence note" are all valid in the same way that a "one-centimetre rule" or a "one-hundred-centimetre box" are all valid. Richard [in SG19] And you wouldn't call a £1 coin a "One Pounds Coin", would you? (Which you would by analogy with "Pounds and Pence") -- Roland Perry -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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