On 12 Aug 2006 06:48:03 GMT,
Andrew Black (delete obvious bit) wrote:
I am confused by the concept of "London Terminals"
I asked for a ticket from East Dulwich to Kings Cross Thameslink and was
given a ticked to "London Terminals". This ticket was accepted by the
ticket machine at KX Thameslink.

OTOH my understanding from posts here in the past is that KX Thameslink is
only a "London Terminals" from the North.

Not complaining at only paying the same price for a ticket ot KX TL as to
London bridge, but worried about being accosted by an over zealous gripper.

I think it has to be said that nobody knows.

I have a Watford Junction to "London Terminals" season ticket that I use
every day to go to Euston.

Very occasionally I want to go south of London, to Brighton maybe 3 times
in a year.

So I ask "Can I use this ticket to Clapham Junction and then just get an
extension?" Yes, says one official at Watford Junction, no says another.
In view of that I decide to buy a full ticket rather than hope that I
can use my Gold Card. I ask the guard on the train whether I could have
used my Gold Card for part of the Journey: "Don't see why not" was the
reply.


Another time I wanted to go to Redhill, so I bought an extension at
Watford Junction. IIRC the extension also said "London Terminals to Redhill".

Being a suspicious sort and knowing that nobody really knows what they
are doing when selling tickets, I queried whether this ticket was going
to work on the underground because I know my Gold Card doesn't, having
on one occasion had about 10 tries to get the barrier open before
realizing I'm using my gold card instead of the underground ticket I'd
bought.

"Yes, this extension includes underground travel, that's what the little
plus on the ticket means".

Of course, it didn't work on the underground. And when querying it with
the underground staff they said that the little plus doesn't mean you
can use it on the underground. So I presume I should have taken Southern
trains to Clapham on my Gold card followed by my extension ticket to
Redhill. (I did specifically ask for cross London travel though). Having
no desire to travel back to Watford Junction to query it straight away I
bought an underground ticket, and, of course, forgot that my extension
ticket would be "eaten" at the barrier (presumably to prevent people
complaining about being sold the wrong ticket)


Tim.


--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 08:26:52 +0000 (UTC), Tim Woodall
wrote:

On 12 Aug 2006 06:48:03 GMT,
Andrew Black (delete obvious bit) wrote:
I am confused by the concept of "London Terminals"
I asked for a ticket from East Dulwich to Kings Cross Thameslink and was
given a ticked to "London Terminals". This ticket was accepted by the
ticket machine at KX Thameslink.

OTOH my understanding from posts here in the past is that KX Thameslink is
only a "London Terminals" from the North.

Not complaining at only paying the same price for a ticket ot KX TL as to
London bridge, but worried about being accosted by an over zealous gripper.

I think it has to be said that nobody knows.

I have a Watford Junction to "London Terminals" season ticket that I use
every day to go to Euston.

Very occasionally I want to go south of London, to Brighton maybe 3 times
in a year.

So I ask "Can I use this ticket to Clapham Junction and then just get an
extension?" Yes, says one official at Watford Junction, no says another.
In view of that I decide to buy a full ticket rather than hope that I
can use my Gold Card. I ask the guard on the train whether I could have
used my Gold Card for part of the Journey: "Don't see why not" was the
reply.


Another time I wanted to go to Redhill, so I bought an extension at
Watford Junction. IIRC the extension also said "London Terminals to Redhill".

Being a suspicious sort and knowing that nobody really knows what they
are doing when selling tickets, I queried whether this ticket was going
to work on the underground because I know my Gold Card doesn't, having
on one occasion had about 10 tries to get the barrier open before
realizing I'm using my gold card instead of the underground ticket I'd
bought.

"Yes, this extension includes underground travel, that's what the little
plus on the ticket means".

Of course, it didn't work on the underground. And when querying it with
the underground staff they said that the little plus doesn't mean you
can use it on the underground. So I presume I should have taken Southern
trains to Clapham on my Gold card followed by my extension ticket to
Redhill. (I did specifically ask for cross London travel though). Having
no desire to travel back to Watford Junction to query it straight away I
bought an underground ticket, and, of course, forgot that my extension
ticket would be "eaten" at the barrier (presumably to prevent people
complaining about being sold the wrong ticket)

The reason, I suspect, for the confusion is the existence of the service
from Watford via the West London Line. I don't know the rules that
apply to that service or whether Clapham Junction is part of "London
Terminals" in respect of that service.

I am very out of date with the minutiae of TOC ticketing and what their
machines can do but the logical ticket issue to "add on" to your season
ticket (for a cross London via the tube journey) would be London
Terminals to Redhill / Brighton with U1 validity as well. ISTR that BR
(shows how out of date I am) typically would not issue London Terminals
to the requested destination when the ticket could be purchased from
the LU office at the London Terminal station you would arrive at.
However this is a very long time ago and I'm sure life must have moved
on. I hope one of our resident NR ticket experts will arrive shortly.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 10:32:05 +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:

I am very out of date with the minutiae of TOC ticketing and what their
machines can do but the logical ticket issue to "add on" to your season
ticket (for a cross London via the tube journey) would be London
Terminals to Redhill / Brighton with U1 validity as well. ISTR that BR
(shows how out of date I am) typically would not issue London Terminals
to the requested destination when the ticket could be purchased from
the LU office at the London Terminal station you would arrive at.

AFAIK this is still the case - you can't buy a ticket that *starts*
with a Tube journey[1] from an NR ticket office. You are expected to
buy it from the LU ticket office where you start your journey. This is
despite the fact that (AFAIK) you can't buy things like Saver Returns
(returns valid for more than 1 day) from LU ticket offices, and then
there's the murky issue of to what extent they accept Railcards. I'm
also not sure if they sell tickets to outside the NSE area - so you
could buy a ticket to Oxford Circus at Edinburgh, but not the other
way round (they'd sell you a Z1 single and tell you to rebook at
King's Cross).


[1] By this I mean tickets From U1(23...). [2]

Though if you buy a return from e.g. Brighton to U1, the return part
will be printed "From U1 To Brighton", which you can't get as a single
or outward part.

[2] To be pedantic, you could sometimes start with a Tube journey on
an NR ticket due to interavailability, e.g. London Terminals to
Shenfield ticket using the Tube from Liverpool Street to Stratford
then changing to NR.

Tim Woodall wrote:
...I know my Gold Card doesn't [work on the Underground], having
on one occasion had about 10 tries to get the barrier open before
realizing I'm using my gold card instead of the underground ticket I'd
bought.

I have the opposite "problem" to Tim. I have a Cambridge-London
Terminals Annual Gold Card. In my case the terminals are King's Cross
and Moorgate (plus Liverpool Street) which is handy as I can walk to
work from Moorgate.

The NFM handily states that such tickets are also valid by LU between
KX and Moorgate. And this is what I do every day, using my London
Terminals ticket to open the gates at KX and Moorgate.

So my "problem" is that whenever I exit the LU station at KX I have to
remember whether I have just travelled from Moorgate (in whch I need to
insert my Cambridge ticket in the gates) or whether I have travelled
from another LU station using my pre-pay Oyster.
About twice a month I absent-mindedly use my Cambridge ticket to leave
the station when I should have touched-out with my Oyster, leaving me
with an unresolved journey on the Oyster.

PauO

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 08:26:52 +0000 (UTC), Tim Woodall wrote:

I have a Watford Junction to "London Terminals" season ticket that I use
every day to go to Euston.

Very occasionally I want to go south of London, to Brighton maybe 3 times
in a year.

So I ask "Can I use this ticket to Clapham Junction and then just get an
extension?" Yes, says one official at Watford Junction, no says another.
In view of that I decide to buy a full ticket rather than hope that I
can use my Gold Card. I ask the guard on the train whether I could have
used my Gold Card for part of the Journey: "Don't see why not" was the
reply.


Another time I wanted to go to Redhill, so I bought an extension at
Watford Junction. IIRC the extension also said "London Terminals to Redhill".

Something like this came up in uk.railway around a year ago. The
upshot was that the validity of a Watford Junction to London Terminals
ticket covers the following routes:

Watford Junction to Euston (direct);
Watford Junction to Vauxhall (but NOT Waterloo/Victoria), via
Kensington Olympia and Clapham Junction.

So you should have been sold an extension from Clapham Junction
(provided you travel via Kensington Olympia, rather than Euston+Tube).

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 16:43:21 +0100,
asdf wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 08:26:52 +0000 (UTC), Tim Woodall wrote:

I have a Watford Junction to "London Terminals" season ticket that I use
every day to go to Euston.


Something like this came up in uk.railway around a year ago. The
upshot was that the validity of a Watford Junction to London Terminals
ticket covers the following routes:

Watford Junction to Euston (direct);
Watford Junction to Vauxhall (but NOT Waterloo/Victoria), via
Kensington Olympia and Clapham Junction.

So you should have been sold an extension from Clapham Junction
(provided you travel via Kensington Olympia, rather than Euston+Tube).
Extremely useful, thankyou. At least now, when I'm at the station, I
know what to ask for depending on how and where I want to travel.

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/