I am confused by the concept of "London Terminals"
I asked for a ticket from East Dulwich to Kings Cross Thameslink and was
given a ticked to "London Terminals". This ticket was accepted by the
ticket machine at KX Thameslink.

OTOH my understanding from posts here in the past is that KX Thameslink is
only a "London Terminals" from the North.

Not complaining at only paying the same price for a ticket ot KX TL as to
London bridge, but worried about being accosted by an over zealous gripper.

--
Andrew Black
London

On 12 Aug 2006 06:48:03 GMT,
Andrew Black (delete obvious bit) wrote:
I am confused by the concept of "London Terminals"
I asked for a ticket from East Dulwich to Kings Cross Thameslink and was
given a ticked to "London Terminals". This ticket was accepted by the
ticket machine at KX Thameslink.

OTOH my understanding from posts here in the past is that KX Thameslink is
only a "London Terminals" from the North.

Not complaining at only paying the same price for a ticket ot KX TL as to
London bridge, but worried about being accosted by an over zealous gripper.

I think it has to be said that nobody knows.

I have a Watford Junction to "London Terminals" season ticket that I use
every day to go to Euston.

Very occasionally I want to go south of London, to Brighton maybe 3 times
in a year.

So I ask "Can I use this ticket to Clapham Junction and then just get an
extension?" Yes, says one official at Watford Junction, no says another.
In view of that I decide to buy a full ticket rather than hope that I
can use my Gold Card. I ask the guard on the train whether I could have
used my Gold Card for part of the Journey: "Don't see why not" was the
reply.


Another time I wanted to go to Redhill, so I bought an extension at
Watford Junction. IIRC the extension also said "London Terminals to Redhill".

Being a suspicious sort and knowing that nobody really knows what they
are doing when selling tickets, I queried whether this ticket was going
to work on the underground because I know my Gold Card doesn't, having
on one occasion had about 10 tries to get the barrier open before
realizing I'm using my gold card instead of the underground ticket I'd
bought.

"Yes, this extension includes underground travel, that's what the little
plus on the ticket means".

Of course, it didn't work on the underground. And when querying it with
the underground staff they said that the little plus doesn't mean you
can use it on the underground. So I presume I should have taken Southern
trains to Clapham on my Gold card followed by my extension ticket to
Redhill. (I did specifically ask for cross London travel though). Having
no desire to travel back to Watford Junction to query it straight away I
bought an underground ticket, and, of course, forgot that my extension
ticket would be "eaten" at the barrier (presumably to prevent people
complaining about being sold the wrong ticket)


Tim.


--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

On 12 Aug 2006 06:48:03 GMT, "Andrew Black (delete obvious bit)"
wrote:

I am confused by the concept of "London Terminals"
I asked for a ticket from East Dulwich to Kings Cross Thameslink and was
given a ticked to "London Terminals". This ticket was accepted by the
ticket machine at KX Thameslink.

Yes it would be accepted but the gate would not know you have come from
the south.

OTOH my understanding from posts here in the past is that KX Thameslink is
only a "London Terminals" from the North.

Correct.

Not complaining at only paying the same price for a ticket ot KX TL as to
London bridge, but worried about being accosted by an over zealous gripper.

You were lucky but the fault was with the ticket issuer not you.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 08:26:52 +0000 (UTC), Tim Woodall
wrote:

On 12 Aug 2006 06:48:03 GMT,
Andrew Black (delete obvious bit) wrote:
I am confused by the concept of "London Terminals"
I asked for a ticket from East Dulwich to Kings Cross Thameslink and was
given a ticked to "London Terminals". This ticket was accepted by the
ticket machine at KX Thameslink.

OTOH my understanding from posts here in the past is that KX Thameslink is
only a "London Terminals" from the North.

Not complaining at only paying the same price for a ticket ot KX TL as to
London bridge, but worried about being accosted by an over zealous gripper.

I think it has to be said that nobody knows.

I have a Watford Junction to "London Terminals" season ticket that I use
every day to go to Euston.

Very occasionally I want to go south of London, to Brighton maybe 3 times
in a year.

So I ask "Can I use this ticket to Clapham Junction and then just get an
extension?" Yes, says one official at Watford Junction, no says another.
In view of that I decide to buy a full ticket rather than hope that I
can use my Gold Card. I ask the guard on the train whether I could have
used my Gold Card for part of the Journey: "Don't see why not" was the
reply.


Another time I wanted to go to Redhill, so I bought an extension at
Watford Junction. IIRC the extension also said "London Terminals to Redhill".

Being a suspicious sort and knowing that nobody really knows what they
are doing when selling tickets, I queried whether this ticket was going
to work on the underground because I know my Gold Card doesn't, having
on one occasion had about 10 tries to get the barrier open before
realizing I'm using my gold card instead of the underground ticket I'd
bought.

"Yes, this extension includes underground travel, that's what the little
plus on the ticket means".

Of course, it didn't work on the underground. And when querying it with
the underground staff they said that the little plus doesn't mean you
can use it on the underground. So I presume I should have taken Southern
trains to Clapham on my Gold card followed by my extension ticket to
Redhill. (I did specifically ask for cross London travel though). Having
no desire to travel back to Watford Junction to query it straight away I
bought an underground ticket, and, of course, forgot that my extension
ticket would be "eaten" at the barrier (presumably to prevent people
complaining about being sold the wrong ticket)

The reason, I suspect, for the confusion is the existence of the service
from Watford via the West London Line. I don't know the rules that
apply to that service or whether Clapham Junction is part of "London
Terminals" in respect of that service.

I am very out of date with the minutiae of TOC ticketing and what their
machines can do but the logical ticket issue to "add on" to your season
ticket (for a cross London via the tube journey) would be London
Terminals to Redhill / Brighton with U1 validity as well. ISTR that BR
(shows how out of date I am) typically would not issue London Terminals
to the requested destination when the ticket could be purchased from
the LU office at the London Terminal station you would arrive at.
However this is a very long time ago and I'm sure life must have moved
on. I hope one of our resident NR ticket experts will arrive shortly.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Tim Woodall wrote:
...I know my Gold Card doesn't [work on the Underground], having
on one occasion had about 10 tries to get the barrier open before
realizing I'm using my gold card instead of the underground ticket I'd
bought.

I have the opposite "problem" to Tim. I have a Cambridge-London
Terminals Annual Gold Card. In my case the terminals are King's Cross
and Moorgate (plus Liverpool Street) which is handy as I can walk to
work from Moorgate.

The NFM handily states that such tickets are also valid by LU between
KX and Moorgate. And this is what I do every day, using my London
Terminals ticket to open the gates at KX and Moorgate.

So my "problem" is that whenever I exit the LU station at KX I have to
remember whether I have just travelled from Moorgate (in whch I need to
insert my Cambridge ticket in the gates) or whether I have travelled
from another LU station using my pre-pay Oyster.
About twice a month I absent-mindedly use my Cambridge ticket to leave
the station when I should have touched-out with my Oyster, leaving me
with an unresolved journey on the Oyster.

PauO

"Barry Salter" wrote in message
...
On 12 Aug 2006 06:48:03 GMT, "Andrew Black (delete obvious bit)"
wrote:

As is so often the case with stations "South of the River" [1], you have
been mis-sold a ticket.
[1] Not that I'm suggesting those North of the River are perfect, but
the vast majority of issuing errors I've come across have been from
Southeastern, Southern and South West Trains trains stations.

The classic one I have to argue everytime at Farnham station (especially if
I get the ticket seller widely known to be less intelligent than the rest)
is that if I ask for a travelcard and an extension from Boundary Zone 6 to x
(say Brighton, for the sake of argument), instead of getting what I ask for,
I am sold the travelcard and a ticket for Surbiton (the boundary station) to
x.

Barry Salter wrote:

If taking the Clapham Junction route, you'd probably need a ticket from
Willesden Junction, as that's where the line splits off from the WCML,
though as the through train to Clapham/Gatwick doesn't pass *through*
Willesden Junction itself, you might need one from Wembley Central.

Isn't Kensington Olympia part of "London Terminals" any more?

Aidan Stanger wrote:
Barry Salter wrote:

If taking the Clapham Junction route, you'd probably need a ticket from
Willesden Junction, as that's where the line splits off from the WCML,
though as the through train to Clapham/Gatwick doesn't pass *through*
Willesden Junction itself, you might need one from Wembley Central.

Isn't Kensington Olympia part of "London Terminals" any more?

I believe not, quite a recent change though I believe. I only know this
from looking through various fares on the avantix mobile and seeing
that a weekly to london terminals is different to a weekly to
Kensington Olympia

On 12 Aug 2006 06:48:03 GMT, Andrew Black (delete obvious bit) wrote:

I am confused by the concept of "London Terminals"
I asked for a ticket from East Dulwich to Kings Cross Thameslink and was
given a ticked to "London Terminals". This ticket was accepted by the
ticket machine at KX Thameslink.

OTOH my understanding from posts here in the past is that KX Thameslink is
only a "London Terminals" from the North.

This is correct. There have been reports recently (can't remember if
here or uk.railway) that certain ticket machines south of the river
will, if you try to buy a ticket to KXTL, issue you with a ticket
printed as being to London Terminals, but at the same price as the
KXTL ticket (i.e. more expensive).

Anyway, like you say, the gates at KXTL will apparently quite happily
accept any ticket to London Terminals, so your only problem is if you
encounter a gripper.

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 08:26:52 +0000 (UTC), Tim Woodall wrote:

I have a Watford Junction to "London Terminals" season ticket that I use
every day to go to Euston.

Very occasionally I want to go south of London, to Brighton maybe 3 times
in a year.

So I ask "Can I use this ticket to Clapham Junction and then just get an
extension?" Yes, says one official at Watford Junction, no says another.
In view of that I decide to buy a full ticket rather than hope that I
can use my Gold Card. I ask the guard on the train whether I could have
used my Gold Card for part of the Journey: "Don't see why not" was the
reply.


Another time I wanted to go to Redhill, so I bought an extension at
Watford Junction. IIRC the extension also said "London Terminals to Redhill".

Something like this came up in uk.railway around a year ago. The
upshot was that the validity of a Watford Junction to London Terminals
ticket covers the following routes:

Watford Junction to Euston (direct);
Watford Junction to Vauxhall (but NOT Waterloo/Victoria), via
Kensington Olympia and Clapham Junction.

So you should have been sold an extension from Clapham Junction
(provided you travel via Kensington Olympia, rather than Euston+Tube).