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#1
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I am confused by the concept of "London Terminals"
I asked for a ticket from East Dulwich to Kings Cross Thameslink and was given a ticked to "London Terminals". This ticket was accepted by the ticket machine at KX Thameslink. OTOH my understanding from posts here in the past is that KX Thameslink is only a "London Terminals" from the North. Not complaining at only paying the same price for a ticket ot KX TL as to London bridge, but worried about being accosted by an over zealous gripper. -- Andrew Black London |
#2
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On 12 Aug 2006 06:48:03 GMT,
Andrew Black (delete obvious bit) wrote: I am confused by the concept of "London Terminals" I asked for a ticket from East Dulwich to Kings Cross Thameslink and was given a ticked to "London Terminals". This ticket was accepted by the ticket machine at KX Thameslink. OTOH my understanding from posts here in the past is that KX Thameslink is only a "London Terminals" from the North. Not complaining at only paying the same price for a ticket ot KX TL as to London bridge, but worried about being accosted by an over zealous gripper. I think it has to be said that nobody knows. I have a Watford Junction to "London Terminals" season ticket that I use every day to go to Euston. Very occasionally I want to go south of London, to Brighton maybe 3 times in a year. So I ask "Can I use this ticket to Clapham Junction and then just get an extension?" Yes, says one official at Watford Junction, no says another. In view of that I decide to buy a full ticket rather than hope that I can use my Gold Card. I ask the guard on the train whether I could have used my Gold Card for part of the Journey: "Don't see why not" was the reply. Another time I wanted to go to Redhill, so I bought an extension at Watford Junction. IIRC the extension also said "London Terminals to Redhill". Being a suspicious sort and knowing that nobody really knows what they are doing when selling tickets, I queried whether this ticket was going to work on the underground because I know my Gold Card doesn't, having on one occasion had about 10 tries to get the barrier open before realizing I'm using my gold card instead of the underground ticket I'd bought. "Yes, this extension includes underground travel, that's what the little plus on the ticket means". Of course, it didn't work on the underground. And when querying it with the underground staff they said that the little plus doesn't mean you can use it on the underground. So I presume I should have taken Southern trains to Clapham on my Gold card followed by my extension ticket to Redhill. (I did specifically ask for cross London travel though). Having no desire to travel back to Watford Junction to query it straight away I bought an underground ticket, and, of course, forgot that my extension ticket would be "eaten" at the barrier (presumably to prevent people complaining about being sold the wrong ticket) Tim. -- God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light. http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/ |
#3
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On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 08:26:52 +0000 (UTC), Tim Woodall
wrote: On 12 Aug 2006 06:48:03 GMT, Andrew Black (delete obvious bit) wrote: I am confused by the concept of "London Terminals" I asked for a ticket from East Dulwich to Kings Cross Thameslink and was given a ticked to "London Terminals". This ticket was accepted by the ticket machine at KX Thameslink. OTOH my understanding from posts here in the past is that KX Thameslink is only a "London Terminals" from the North. Not complaining at only paying the same price for a ticket ot KX TL as to London bridge, but worried about being accosted by an over zealous gripper. I think it has to be said that nobody knows. I have a Watford Junction to "London Terminals" season ticket that I use every day to go to Euston. Very occasionally I want to go south of London, to Brighton maybe 3 times in a year. So I ask "Can I use this ticket to Clapham Junction and then just get an extension?" Yes, says one official at Watford Junction, no says another. In view of that I decide to buy a full ticket rather than hope that I can use my Gold Card. I ask the guard on the train whether I could have used my Gold Card for part of the Journey: "Don't see why not" was the reply. Another time I wanted to go to Redhill, so I bought an extension at Watford Junction. IIRC the extension also said "London Terminals to Redhill". Being a suspicious sort and knowing that nobody really knows what they are doing when selling tickets, I queried whether this ticket was going to work on the underground because I know my Gold Card doesn't, having on one occasion had about 10 tries to get the barrier open before realizing I'm using my gold card instead of the underground ticket I'd bought. "Yes, this extension includes underground travel, that's what the little plus on the ticket means". Of course, it didn't work on the underground. And when querying it with the underground staff they said that the little plus doesn't mean you can use it on the underground. So I presume I should have taken Southern trains to Clapham on my Gold card followed by my extension ticket to Redhill. (I did specifically ask for cross London travel though). Having no desire to travel back to Watford Junction to query it straight away I bought an underground ticket, and, of course, forgot that my extension ticket would be "eaten" at the barrier (presumably to prevent people complaining about being sold the wrong ticket) The reason, I suspect, for the confusion is the existence of the service from Watford via the West London Line. I don't know the rules that apply to that service or whether Clapham Junction is part of "London Terminals" in respect of that service. I am very out of date with the minutiae of TOC ticketing and what their machines can do but the logical ticket issue to "add on" to your season ticket (for a cross London via the tube journey) would be London Terminals to Redhill / Brighton with U1 validity as well. ISTR that BR (shows how out of date I am) typically would not issue London Terminals to the requested destination when the ticket could be purchased from the LU office at the London Terminal station you would arrive at. However this is a very long time ago and I'm sure life must have moved on. I hope one of our resident NR ticket experts will arrive shortly. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
#4
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On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 10:32:05 +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:
I am very out of date with the minutiae of TOC ticketing and what their machines can do but the logical ticket issue to "add on" to your season ticket (for a cross London via the tube journey) would be London Terminals to Redhill / Brighton with U1 validity as well. ISTR that BR (shows how out of date I am) typically would not issue London Terminals to the requested destination when the ticket could be purchased from the LU office at the London Terminal station you would arrive at. AFAIK this is still the case - you can't buy a ticket that *starts* with a Tube journey[1] from an NR ticket office. You are expected to buy it from the LU ticket office where you start your journey. This is despite the fact that (AFAIK) you can't buy things like Saver Returns (returns valid for more than 1 day) from LU ticket offices, and then there's the murky issue of to what extent they accept Railcards. I'm also not sure if they sell tickets to outside the NSE area - so you could buy a ticket to Oxford Circus at Edinburgh, but not the other way round (they'd sell you a Z1 single and tell you to rebook at King's Cross). [1] By this I mean tickets From U1(23...). [2] Though if you buy a return from e.g. Brighton to U1, the return part will be printed "From U1 To Brighton", which you can't get as a single or outward part. [2] To be pedantic, you could sometimes start with a Tube journey on an NR ticket due to interavailability, e.g. London Terminals to Shenfield ticket using the Tube from Liverpool Street to Stratford then changing to NR. |
#5
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Tim Woodall wrote:
...I know my Gold Card doesn't [work on the Underground], having on one occasion had about 10 tries to get the barrier open before realizing I'm using my gold card instead of the underground ticket I'd bought. I have the opposite "problem" to Tim. I have a Cambridge-London Terminals Annual Gold Card. In my case the terminals are King's Cross and Moorgate (plus Liverpool Street) which is handy as I can walk to work from Moorgate. The NFM handily states that such tickets are also valid by LU between KX and Moorgate. And this is what I do every day, using my London Terminals ticket to open the gates at KX and Moorgate. So my "problem" is that whenever I exit the LU station at KX I have to remember whether I have just travelled from Moorgate (in whch I need to insert my Cambridge ticket in the gates) or whether I have travelled from another LU station using my pre-pay Oyster. About twice a month I absent-mindedly use my Cambridge ticket to leave the station when I should have touched-out with my Oyster, leaving me with an unresolved journey on the Oyster. PauO |
#6
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On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 08:26:52 +0000 (UTC), Tim Woodall wrote:
I have a Watford Junction to "London Terminals" season ticket that I use every day to go to Euston. Very occasionally I want to go south of London, to Brighton maybe 3 times in a year. So I ask "Can I use this ticket to Clapham Junction and then just get an extension?" Yes, says one official at Watford Junction, no says another. In view of that I decide to buy a full ticket rather than hope that I can use my Gold Card. I ask the guard on the train whether I could have used my Gold Card for part of the Journey: "Don't see why not" was the reply. Another time I wanted to go to Redhill, so I bought an extension at Watford Junction. IIRC the extension also said "London Terminals to Redhill". Something like this came up in uk.railway around a year ago. The upshot was that the validity of a Watford Junction to London Terminals ticket covers the following routes: Watford Junction to Euston (direct); Watford Junction to Vauxhall (but NOT Waterloo/Victoria), via Kensington Olympia and Clapham Junction. So you should have been sold an extension from Clapham Junction (provided you travel via Kensington Olympia, rather than Euston+Tube). |
#7
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On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 16:43:21 +0100,
asdf wrote: On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 08:26:52 +0000 (UTC), Tim Woodall wrote: I have a Watford Junction to "London Terminals" season ticket that I use every day to go to Euston. Something like this came up in uk.railway around a year ago. The upshot was that the validity of a Watford Junction to London Terminals ticket covers the following routes: Watford Junction to Euston (direct); Watford Junction to Vauxhall (but NOT Waterloo/Victoria), via Kensington Olympia and Clapham Junction. So you should have been sold an extension from Clapham Junction (provided you travel via Kensington Olympia, rather than Euston+Tube). Extremely useful, thankyou. At least now, when I'm at the station, I know what to ask for depending on how and where I want to travel. Tim. -- God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light. http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/ |
#8
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On 12 Aug 2006 06:48:03 GMT, "Andrew Black (delete obvious bit)"
wrote: I am confused by the concept of "London Terminals" I asked for a ticket from East Dulwich to Kings Cross Thameslink and was given a ticked to "London Terminals". This ticket was accepted by the ticket machine at KX Thameslink. Yes it would be accepted but the gate would not know you have come from the south. OTOH my understanding from posts here in the past is that KX Thameslink is only a "London Terminals" from the North. Correct. Not complaining at only paying the same price for a ticket ot KX TL as to London bridge, but worried about being accosted by an over zealous gripper. You were lucky but the fault was with the ticket issuer not you. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
#9
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On 12 Aug 2006 06:48:03 GMT, Andrew Black (delete obvious bit) wrote:
I am confused by the concept of "London Terminals" I asked for a ticket from East Dulwich to Kings Cross Thameslink and was given a ticked to "London Terminals". This ticket was accepted by the ticket machine at KX Thameslink. OTOH my understanding from posts here in the past is that KX Thameslink is only a "London Terminals" from the North. This is correct. There have been reports recently (can't remember if here or uk.railway) that certain ticket machines south of the river will, if you try to buy a ticket to KXTL, issue you with a ticket printed as being to London Terminals, but at the same price as the KXTL ticket (i.e. more expensive). Anyway, like you say, the gates at KXTL will apparently quite happily accept any ticket to London Terminals, so your only problem is if you encounter a gripper. |
#10
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I was travelling from Westcombe Park to Paddington once (single
required, I was catching the sleeper to Penzance) and used the ticket machine at WP station (ticket office closed). I duly typed in my destination as Paddington but it only charged me the normal Paddington to London Terminals fare (£2.50 if memory serves). The ticket recorded the destination as London Terminals but I still hoped that I'd be able to get all the way to Paddington for this price. Probably needless to say, when I tried to use the ticket to enter the Bakerloo line at Charing X, it was rejected. I ended up having to pay £3 for a single to Paddington. I was a bit miffed because I felt that if I'd been sold the correct ticket at WP station, it would have been less than £5.50 (=£2.50 + £3). Or is there a round-the-houses route from Westcombe Park to Paddington on surface rail only (ie avoiding the underground) that I could have used my ticket for? Regards |
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