Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 10:14:39 +0100, "Steve"
wrote:

Haveing jsut spent the best part of a Saturday (I know I shouldn't but
need's must) doing Oxford Street and witnessing the nightmare of buses and
traffic I have a posssible solution.

Causes of the problems.
Too many busses
Too many bus stops/laybys which despite busses pulling in, others can't
overtake and then the ones that do, block the ones that pulled in from
escaping.
Too many tourists not understanding 'pay before entry' and unable to read
the English only instructions on the roadside ticket machines.
Drivers telling passengers they can't take money, then waiting at the stop
while the passenger tries to figure out the machine.

My possible solution.
(snip)
Possibility perhaps of creating a terminus at Marble Arch and Centrepoint
for busses to turn, therefore reducing the number of busses on the streets.

Funny I thought there already were stopping areas at both of these
places. If not I'd be interested to know where the 1, 14, 134, 242, 159
and 30 all terminate.

I'm guessing he means a proper bus station, rather than simply a bus
standing point. This will certainly become possible at Marble Arch if
the decision is taken to relocate the Arch into Hyde Park; a proper bus
station here would make interchange easier, and at the same time the
opportunity could be taken to sort out the horrible subway system.

At the other end, St Giles Circus would be rearranged for Crossrail,
with a pedestrian plaza replacing both the Centrepoint fountain and
Andrew Borde St (where there would be a new station entrance). This will
require a re-think of bus operations in the area; in fact, reduction of
services travelling along Oxford Street itself would be a good idea as
soon as construction started on Crossrail, as various construction
arrangements would adversely affect Ox St traffic flow.

Maybe also introducing JayWalking byelaws on the length of the zone except
when all busses are at a standstill allowing people to cross anywhere.

Pointless as it is unenforceable. Are we to have "plastic policemen"
acting like morons every metre of so along the length of Oxford St?
Surely they need to be protecting us from the imminent terrorist threat?
Half of London could explode at any given moment.

Remember half the people on the street appear to be Americans who are fully
aware of Jaywalking laws to the point they won't cross even when it's safe
to do so!

Not sure how you can readily identify half of the people as Americans.

Admittedly, this plan is a little rough round the edges and some tightening
up may be needed, but your comments would be most welcome.

This has been done before - there have been reports recommending huge
cuts to the bus network to make it happen. Oxford St cannot operate
properly without high volumes of public transport provision whether by
bus or by Tube - the Central Line closure showed that. There will
always be a part of the shopping crowd who want access to taxis so it
will be hard to ban them.

The few things I can think of are

a) Link together some bus services that were previously split - the
8 and 98 spring to mind. This might reduce the volume of buses still
needing to run along the street.

b) Review some service groups like the 10 and 390 to see if they
could be thinned out.

c) Divert some services from the West to run via Wigmore Street
where they terminate at Oxford Circus - 113, 137 and 189 spring to
mind.

I think using Brook Street (and converting it to two-way, bus priority
operation throughout, with a right turn created for buses at Park Lane
if possible) would be a good idea for services from the west like the
137 and through services 6, 10, 15, 23, 94 and 390; it's quick, it's not
too far from the shops, and it avoids the congested section of Oxford
Street between Orchard Street and Marble Arch. It might also be possible
to send some services like 10 and 390 onwards via Great Marlborough
Street and Noel St as far as Wardour Street.

Not sure if the denizens of Mayfair would like that too much though.

d) Block off some of the side streets between Oxo and TCR. I
appreciate this will create some difficulties but it would reduce the
need for traffic light controlled junctions. Some of the remaining
junctions may need longer cycle times to allow the higher volumes of
traffic to pass through them without blocking all of Soho and Fitzrovia.

A difficulty I'd envisage with that is that signalised junctions also
provide an opportunity for pedestrians to cross; faster-moving buses
would make crossing more difficult.

e) Have the same streetscape design between Oxo and TCR as there is
between Oxo and Marble Arch. This may improve pedestrian circulation a
little bit if coupled with the removal of central islands.

I still doubt that the above would create much of an improvement because
the high passenger volumes mean lots of buses are needed and there are
very long established routes which millions of people rely upon to get
to work and to the shops. If there was an easy solution it would have
been found by now.


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Sun, 13 Aug 2006, Dave Arquati wrote:

if the decision is taken to relocate the Arch into Hyde Park;

This seems like a dreadful idea to me - the epitome of the planning
mentality that puts roads above people.

Yes, there needs to be walking access to the arch from the park, but the
solution is not to move the arch, it's to get rid of the absurd gyratory
system around it; drop the roads down a few metres and put it in an
underpass, either as a gyratory, or as a straightforward pair of forks. I
favour the latter - it would make navigation by car more awkward, and so
reduce traffic. Hey presto, people can now walk from Oxford Street,
through the arch, into Hyde Park!

No, i don't know where i'd put the tube station booking hall. Details!

tom

--
megaptera novae angliae, soundwork chris draper, push, pull, open, ..

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Sun, 13 Aug 2006, Dave Arquati wrote:

if the decision is taken to relocate the Arch into Hyde Park;

This seems like a dreadful idea to me - the epitome of the planning
mentality that puts roads above people.


Yes, there needs to be walking access to the arch from the park, but the
solution is not to move the arch, it's to get rid of the absurd gyratory
system around it; drop the roads down a few metres and put it in an
underpass, either as a gyratory, or as a straightforward pair of forks.

Dropping roads down into underpasses is fraught with difficulty, because
there are so many underground services (not to mention Underground
services) in the way.

I certainly favour rearranging the gyratory, but practicality is
required. I reckon that most of the northern and eastern sides of the
gyratory could be closed to cars (a la Trafalgar Square), and coupled
with the movement of the Arch into the park, frees up an ideal spot for
a (well-designed) bus station. The plans for the Arch were to move it
next to Speakers' Corner. Placing surface pedestrian crossings from here
across into the bus station and from the bus station to Oxford Street,
Edgware Road etc (across the now bus-only segments of the gyratory)
would provide a much better (and faster) walking environment than the
subways. There would also be a high-quality public transport interchange
to match.

One of the irritations of the current layout is that interchange between
buses is awkward, as you can only get the full set of services on each
arm by crossing the whole gyratory. Putting the roads into underpasses
wouldn't necessarily help; obviously there still need to be roads on the
surface for buses, and the Arch itself prevents a reasonable layout from
being achieved that minimises interchange walks.

I favour the latter - it would make navigation by car more awkward, and
so reduce traffic. Hey presto, people can now walk from Oxford Street,
through the arch, into Hyde Park!

No, i don't know where i'd put the tube station booking hall. Details!

tom



--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Haveing jsut spent the best part of a Saturday (I know I shouldn't but
need's must) doing Oxford Street and witnessing the nightmare of buses and
traffic I have a posssible solution.

Firstly, shutting half of OS from Oxford Circus to TCR due to a large
crane
that caused all buses to be rerouted down Charing Cross Road, Shaftesbury
Avene, Haymarket, Regent Street, these sort of works should be done at
night, NOT during a busy day.

Apart from that and the fact that there are too many busses, mostly with
empty seats I have noticed the following.

Causes of the problems.
Too many busses
Too many bus stops/laybys which despite busses pulling in, others can't
overtake and then the ones that do, block the ones that pulled in from
escaping.
Too many tourists not understanding 'pay before entry' and unable to read
the English only instructions on the roadside ticket machines.
Drivers telling passengers they can't take money, then waiting at the stop
while the passenger tries to figure out the machine.

My possible solution.
Trams have been talked about for years but too expensive to introduce.
Why not make the busses solve the very problems they are causing.
The street should be zoned off to Busses only, not cabs or bikes or
anything
else, from Orchard Street (Selfridges) to TCR
The road should be single lane only in each direction, (this still leaves
space for emergency vehicles to pass in the now redundant road space).
All central islands should be removed.
All traffic lights at roads crossing or joining OS should be phased
together.
All bus stops removed.
When buses enter OS they become part of a shuttle, travelling in single
file
and not overtaking or needing to pull in.
All traffice lights crossing the street will turn red together stopping
movement on the whole of OS while traffic crosses. Meanwhile all the
busses
will open doors and allow entry or egress to passengers at the same time.
Lights turn red/amber and doors close.
Lights turn green and all buses move at once at a dictated speed suggest 5
or 10mph
Lights turn red, all busses stop (off a junction).
Repeat

This means that firstly the buses are all moving together and all stopping
together. No overtaking, pulling in etc.
All cross traffic moves at the same time.
No more wasted time with non moving vehicles that have their doors shut,
then moving 10 feet to the stop then holding up more traffic while they
then
open for passengers.

Perhaps no charges to use the bus while in shuttle mode, (it's probably
costing them more at present in wasted fuel and wages than they are
earning
from the few people that are on the busses)

Possibility perhaps of creating a terminus at Marble Arch and Centrepoint
for busses to turn, therefore reducing the number of busses on the
streets.

Maybe also introducing JayWalking byelaws on the length of the zone except
when all busses are at a standstill allowing people to cross anywhere.
Remember half the people on the street appear to be Americans who are
fully
aware of Jaywalking laws to the point they won't cross even when it's safe
to do so!

Admittedly, this plan is a little rough round the edges and some
tightening
up may be needed, but your comments would be most welcome.

Perhaps resulting discussion could be submitted to TfL or Wesminster Road
Management Dept.

Steve

How about just stopping unnecessary road traffic? There are many
nearly-empty cars on that road which take up far more space than buses.
Also, if the cars were reduced, then the buses would work more efficiently.

dave

d wrote:
"Steve" wrote in message
...
Haveing jsut spent the best part of a Saturday (I know I shouldn't but
need's must) doing Oxford Street and witnessing the nightmare of buses and
traffic I have a posssible solution.
(snip)
How about just stopping unnecessary road traffic? There are many
nearly-empty cars on that road which take up far more space than buses.
Also, if the cars were reduced, then the buses would work more efficiently.

Private traffic is already banned from Oxford Street during the daytime
on Mondays to Saturdays. There may be a case for extending the ban to
Sundays, but other than that, the problem really is too many buses and
taxis. AIUI there are about 200 buses per hour per direction, depending
on which bit of the street and what time of day it is.


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Whinging Courier wrote:

You've forgotten and made a point at the same time in the OP. It is on a
slight tangent but the powers that be bang on about buses curing
congestion well, from what I see on a day-to-day basis, it's buses and
taxis that cause it!

It isn't; it's caused by the appalling traffic management that is going
on there. There are many ways in which this could be improved given
the will. Two have already been suggested.

Neil

On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 12:39:42 +0100, asdf
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 10:14:39 +0100, Steve wrote:

All bus stops removed.
When buses enter OS they become part of a shuttle, travelling in single file
and not overtaking or needing to pull in.
All traffice lights crossing the street will turn red together stopping
movement on the whole of OS while traffic crosses. Meanwhile all the busses
will open doors and allow entry or egress to passengers at the same time.

So, if there are no bus stops, how do you know where to wait for your
bus? Do you just hang around near some traffic lights and hope they
turn red as your bus approaches?

Well that's pretty much how it worked with the Routemasters. People
just hopped on and off all along Oxford Street, on whichever bus
happened to be stopped near them. Now that the buses only stop at
certain stops depending on where they're going, and more importantly
you can only get off them at prescribed stops, people have to think a
lot more about which particular bus to get on, which leads to bigger
crowds at each stop, and longer boarding times for each bus.