"jonmorris" wrote in message
oups.com...
wrote:
As a matter of interest, as you were going to Hatfield what would you
have done if the security men hadn't asked you to leave the train
there? Also (and I realise this may be difficult or impossible to
answer) did you get the impression that the troublesome couple and
child were intending to travel beyond Hatfield?

As soon as I realised the train was continuing with no police
attendance, I realised I was screwed and told the guard so. I was,
sadly, proved right.

Did you ask about continuing beyond Hatfield and getting a cab/lift home
from the next stop? Not and ideal solution, but I might well have
considered it had I been in the same situation.

Aaron Borbora wrote:
Did you ask about continuing beyond Hatfield and getting a cab/lift home
from the next stop? Not and ideal solution, but I might well have
considered it had I been in the same situation.

I didn't think that at the time. It's easy to think of all the things
you could have done after the event.

Certainly calling the police on my mobile would have been a good idea,
rather than using the alarm, although the train would have long since
departed by the time they arrived (Potters Bar to Hatfield at that time
of night is only a few minutes) as it wouldn't have had any cause to
stop and hold anyone onboard.

Jonathan

jonmorris wrote:

Certainly calling the police on my mobile would have been a good idea,
rather than using the alarm, although the train would have long since
departed by the time they arrived (Potters Bar to Hatfield at that time
of night is only a few minutes) as it wouldn't have had any cause to
stop and hold anyone onboard.

You could have used the alarm after the train had stopped, and
explained to staff that the police were coming. But, as you say, it's
always easier to think of these things after the event.

I don't think trouble makers are all that much of a recent development,
and they aren't all late nighters either. Its detecting and dealing
with them that has dropped below the horizon

On the York Aberystwyth one night in the early eighties there was a
young lass in the next compartment (compartments - oh please - luxury!)
A group of scumbags got on at Leeds and started behaving - to say the
least - in an antisocial manner.

I asked them to desist and they spent the rest of the way to
Huddersfield flexing the wall of my compartment and chanting xxxxing Mr
British Rail - we'll have you! Of course at Huddersfield they all got
off as meek and mild as you like and I was left to enjoy my Deltic
haulage in peace. No repercussions

Similarly a late night run on a 142 from Leeds one night ended up with
me and the guard in the back cab between Leeds and Marsden whilst the
yobs - do they have a special breed there? - hurled Stella cans and
curry at each other. The BTP were called and were at Marsden waiting
for them. Don't know what happened - we were away.

The best was on a mid afternoon 156 between York and Leeds when a
leatherclad plonker spat on the floor and the nice German lady sitting
opposite him told him in no uncertain terms that this was not a nice
thing to do.

After some snarling he made to light up to show his contempt so I
pointed out the little red circle and suggested he thought better of
it. There then followed some further debate and he sat there cursing.

When we got to Leeds the guard must have noticed what was going on and
the BTP police were there - exit yob. I then noticed the BTP outside my
window pointing fingers at me and sure enough back on they came. "Are
you railway" - yes - "Would you be prepared to give evidence" - of
course. At this point yobs accomplice, previously unseen, rose up from
his seat and said that if I opened my mouth any more I would never see
Manchester.

He hadn't seen the large BTP sergeant immediately behind him who simply
scruffed him, dragged him out over the seat top, and it was him who
never saw Manchester! Needless to say, I never heard anything further.

That's what we need - quick summary discouragement. These guys are very
brave when they are in the ascendant, but put 'em down and they stay
down.

That's what we need - quick summary discouragement. These guys are very
brave when they are in the ascendant, but put 'em down and they stay
down.

Totally agree.
That's how they have been dealt with at least for the last few
enerations - until recently.
Lets reclaim publicly used space for the vast majority of ordinary decent
people to come and go as they please without running the gauntlet of the
yobs.

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, notbresson wrote:

Lets reclaim publicly used space for the vast majority of ordinary decent
people to come and go as they please without running the gauntlet of the
yobs.

How do we do it tho?

A point to ponder is also this :is the "yob" contigent on the increase, or
is it just the speed of information now makes the problem seem worse?
--
Chris Johns

"Chris Johns" wrote in message
al...
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, notbresson wrote:

Lets reclaim publicly used space for the vast majority of ordinary decent
people to come and go as they please without running the gauntlet of the
yobs.

How do we do it tho?

A point to ponder is also this :is the "yob" contigent on the increase, or
is it just the speed of information now makes the problem seem worse?
--
Chris Johns

Not to believe there is nothing to be done.
eg don't believe that if you physically restrain, with minimum force
necessary, a child/youth from assaulting or harassing you or your neighbour
you will be charged with assault.
eg I have removed youths' legs from seats when I or my companion want to sit
in the next seat or opposite.
Persuade parents not to condone anti social and criminal activity by their
children by telling them that such behaviour is out of order.
Yes it is easier said than done and some courage is needed but the
alternative is intolerable.

In the Leeds incident there was no court time, no costs, no conviction,
no record - and of course there no issue as to the problem that these
low lives were causing to other passengers at the time. They brought
their delay and inconvenience on themselves

It would have been interesting to observe them continue their journey
to see if their humiliation, at their own hands, had slowed them down,
or made them even more anti social.

In today's world I certainly have a think before I say anything, but I
still consider that if more reasonable people spoke up there would be
less latitude for these scumbags. But I don't want a mouthful of teeth
to prove the point.

Another incident of where one man can't, but a group can, was a few
years ago approaching Nuneaton. Virgin gripper asks man for ticket. Man
produces invalid discount ticket not even for that day. Gripper offers
to regularise by way of surcharge. Man gets lippy - in fact downright
offensive. Man - I might add was also suited and booted, laptop etc.
Gripper threatens to call BT Police but lets slip this might delay
train.

A group of people travelling up for a wedding overhear this and offer
to "assist" gripper by removing said person from train into the hands
of the BTP police to allow minimum time at Nuneaton.

Train arrives, man continues to be uppity. Gripper gives the nod and
man, briefcase and laptop appear on platform straight into the arms of
the law. Doors locked - baton waved and wedding party continues on its
way. Man seen struggling manfully with police officers seeming somewhat
reluctant to accompany them.

He didn't need to be in that position but .............. he had only
himself to blame

There are many more tales - but they are for another day

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 13:00:30 GMT someone who may be "notbresson"
wrote this:-

Lets reclaim publicly used space for the vast majority of ordinary decent
people to come and go as they please without running the gauntlet of the
yobs.

What happens when "ordinary decent people" reclaim public space and
as a result they are oppressed by those who are supposed to be
maintaining law and order? See the Daily Wail for examples.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen wrote:
Lets reclaim publicly used space for the vast majority of ordinary decent
people to come and go as they please without running the gauntlet of the
yobs.

What happens when "ordinary decent people" reclaim public space and
as a result they are oppressed by those who are supposed to be
maintaining law and order? See the Daily Wail for examples.


The short answer is that it barely ever happens, hence why the very few
cases where police/CPS do arrest "have a go hero" types generally make
it onto the front page of the Daily Wail the following day, followed
immediately by an embarrassed dropping of all charges.

The high-profile exceptions tend to be 'ordinary decent people' who
"reclaim public space" in lunatically dangerous ways, such the teacher
who fired an air rifle at a group of children, or more recently the
gunsmith who fired a shotgun at passing rally cars.

In general, as long as your means for "reclaiming public space" doesn't
involve shooting anyone, then the police will almost always be pleased
rather than vindictive.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org