That's what we need - quick summary discouragement. These guys are very
brave when they are in the ascendant, but put 'em down and they stay
down.

Totally agree.
That's how they have been dealt with at least for the last few
enerations - until recently.
Lets reclaim publicly used space for the vast majority of ordinary decent
people to come and go as they please without running the gauntlet of the
yobs.

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, notbresson wrote:

Lets reclaim publicly used space for the vast majority of ordinary decent
people to come and go as they please without running the gauntlet of the
yobs.

How do we do it tho?

A point to ponder is also this :is the "yob" contigent on the increase, or
is it just the speed of information now makes the problem seem worse?
--
Chris Johns

"Chris Johns" wrote in message
al...
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, notbresson wrote:

Lets reclaim publicly used space for the vast majority of ordinary decent
people to come and go as they please without running the gauntlet of the
yobs.

How do we do it tho?

A point to ponder is also this :is the "yob" contigent on the increase, or
is it just the speed of information now makes the problem seem worse?
--
Chris Johns

Not to believe there is nothing to be done.
eg don't believe that if you physically restrain, with minimum force
necessary, a child/youth from assaulting or harassing you or your neighbour
you will be charged with assault.
eg I have removed youths' legs from seats when I or my companion want to sit
in the next seat or opposite.
Persuade parents not to condone anti social and criminal activity by their
children by telling them that such behaviour is out of order.
Yes it is easier said than done and some courage is needed but the
alternative is intolerable.

In the Leeds incident there was no court time, no costs, no conviction,
no record - and of course there no issue as to the problem that these
low lives were causing to other passengers at the time. They brought
their delay and inconvenience on themselves

It would have been interesting to observe them continue their journey
to see if their humiliation, at their own hands, had slowed them down,
or made them even more anti social.

In today's world I certainly have a think before I say anything, but I
still consider that if more reasonable people spoke up there would be
less latitude for these scumbags. But I don't want a mouthful of teeth
to prove the point.

Another incident of where one man can't, but a group can, was a few
years ago approaching Nuneaton. Virgin gripper asks man for ticket. Man
produces invalid discount ticket not even for that day. Gripper offers
to regularise by way of surcharge. Man gets lippy - in fact downright
offensive. Man - I might add was also suited and booted, laptop etc.
Gripper threatens to call BT Police but lets slip this might delay
train.

A group of people travelling up for a wedding overhear this and offer
to "assist" gripper by removing said person from train into the hands
of the BTP police to allow minimum time at Nuneaton.

Train arrives, man continues to be uppity. Gripper gives the nod and
man, briefcase and laptop appear on platform straight into the arms of
the law. Doors locked - baton waved and wedding party continues on its
way. Man seen struggling manfully with police officers seeming somewhat
reluctant to accompany them.

He didn't need to be in that position but .............. he had only
himself to blame

There are many more tales - but they are for another day

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 13:00:30 GMT someone who may be "notbresson"
wrote this:-

Lets reclaim publicly used space for the vast majority of ordinary decent
people to come and go as they please without running the gauntlet of the
yobs.

What happens when "ordinary decent people" reclaim public space and
as a result they are oppressed by those who are supposed to be
maintaining law and order? See the Daily Wail for examples.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen wrote:
Lets reclaim publicly used space for the vast majority of ordinary decent
people to come and go as they please without running the gauntlet of the
yobs.

What happens when "ordinary decent people" reclaim public space and
as a result they are oppressed by those who are supposed to be
maintaining law and order? See the Daily Wail for examples.


The short answer is that it barely ever happens, hence why the very few
cases where police/CPS do arrest "have a go hero" types generally make
it onto the front page of the Daily Wail the following day, followed
immediately by an embarrassed dropping of all charges.

The high-profile exceptions tend to be 'ordinary decent people' who
"reclaim public space" in lunatically dangerous ways, such the teacher
who fired an air rifle at a group of children, or more recently the
gunsmith who fired a shotgun at passing rally cars.

In general, as long as your means for "reclaiming public space" doesn't
involve shooting anyone, then the police will almost always be pleased
rather than vindictive.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

I meant uniformed security guards (as you say below, they were used by
Wagn between Potters Bar and Stevenage and were totally useless but at
least wore Hi-vis vests with 'SECURITY' written on the back). A RPI

I disagree - a month or so back a guy started assaulting a woman at
Potters Bar and had it not been for the security guard there I doubt I
would have been able to prevent him doing any further damage to her. I
for one was very glad for his presence and often late nights there is at
least one security guard at the station.

Even though the alarm signal doesn't automatically stop the train now,
in most cases it's obvious the driver would stop immediately, just in
case someone being dragged. You should always should wait until a
station unless it needs to be stopped immediately.

I was on the tube once when approaching Acton Town, a window was broken
(outer skin only). I would have pulled it down when we got into the
station anyway, there was nothing could be done there and the best thing
would be for us to continue just in case there was an idiot taking pot
shots at the train. Still, someone pushed the alarm within a few seconds
with a sort of proud smirk on his face, result was we sat outside the
station as they assembled BTP and station staff to meet us

I'm not sure what you wanted to happen given your actions. Even if you
had a quick chat with the driver, he would call the signaller, who would
call BTP, which would have been no quicker or effective than you doing
it yourself and giving more opportunity for the message to be corrupted.
Best move would have been to have moved carriages, rung the police, and
left it to them to deal with. If they felt it was serious enough they
would have had the train held and met by either Herts or BTP.

Given the feeling you would be assaulted you should have stayed with the
two heavies, refused to leave if necessary promting them to call police.
Now it's happened a strong letter to FCC and please update us as to the
outcome.

D

On 10 Oct 2006 10:47:09 -0700, John B wrote:

What happens when "ordinary decent people" reclaim public space and
as a result they are oppressed by those who are supposed to be
maintaining law and order? See the Daily Wail for examples.

The short answer is that it barely ever happens, hence why the very few
cases where police/CPS do arrest "have a go hero" types generally make
it onto the front page of the Daily Wail the following day, followed
immediately by an embarrassed dropping of all charges.

Even if they drop the charges, they tend to insist on keeping the DNA
profile of the "hero" on the national database permanently.

That alone is enough to discourage me from getting involved.

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 21:08:32 +0100 someone who may be asdf
wrote this:-

Even if they drop the charges, they tend to insist on keeping the DNA
profile of the "hero" on the national database permanently.

Indeed, in England and Wales. Interestingly when police officers
were offered the "benefit" of being put on the DNA database they
refused.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 10 Oct 2006 10:47:09 -0700 someone who may be "John B"
wrote this:-

The short answer is that it barely ever happens, hence why the very few
cases where police/CPS do arrest "have a go hero" types generally make
it onto the front page of the Daily Wail the following day,

I'm not convinced this is the case, though there is no way of
proving that.

followed immediately by an embarrassed dropping of all charges.

Ditto.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54