wrote in message
ps.com...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/..._feature.shtml

Notice how in almost all cases on this list, while there may be savings
for singles and peak returns, the cheap day return is more expensive.

Furthermore, none of these illustrate the rail-tube-rail fares where
the fare rises are pretty steep for cheap day returns - e.g. Clapham
Junction to Finsbury Park (zone 2 to zone 2) goes from £4.40 cheap day
return to £7.00 cheap day return, Orpington to West Hampstead (zone 6
to zone 2) goes from £5.50 cheap day return to £9.70 cheap day
return.

The cheap day return fares are completely pointless though as a travelcard
would be cheaper. So the actual price would be £4.90 for CJ-FP and £6.30 for
Orp-WH.

Peter Smyth

Peter Smyth wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/..._feature.shtml

Notice how in almost all cases on this list, while there may be savings
for singles and peak returns, the cheap day return is more expensive.

Furthermore, none of these illustrate the rail-tube-rail fares where
the fare rises are pretty steep for cheap day returns - e.g. Clapham
Junction to Finsbury Park (zone 2 to zone 2) goes from £4.40 cheap day
return to £7.00 cheap day return, Orpington to West Hampstead (zone 6
to zone 2) goes from £5.50 cheap day return to £9.70 cheap day
return.

The cheap day return fares are completely pointless though as a travelcard
would be cheaper. So the actual price would be £4.90 for CJ-FP and £6.30 for
Orp-WH.

And once Oyster is rolled out at National Rail stations in the zone
system, won't PAYG capping apply anyway?

--

Stephen

My excitement must be clouding my ability to judge comedic hyperbole.

Stephen Farrow wrote:

Peter Smyth wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/..._feature.shtml

Notice how in almost all cases on this list, while there may be savings
for singles and peak returns, the cheap day return is more expensive.

Furthermore, none of these illustrate the rail-tube-rail fares where
the fare rises are pretty steep for cheap day returns - e.g. Clapham
Junction to Finsbury Park (zone 2 to zone 2) goes from £4.40 cheap day
return to £7.00 cheap day return, Orpington to West Hampstead (zone 6
to zone 2) goes from £5.50 cheap day return to £9.70 cheap day
return.

The cheap day return fares are completely pointless though as a travelcard
would be cheaper. So the actual price would be £4.90 for CJ-FP and £6.30 for
Orp-WH.

And once Oyster is rolled out at National Rail stations in the zone
system, won't PAYG capping apply anyway?


Yes. Though the operative word there is "once" - there doesn't appear
to be a clear timetable in place for this happening - it will happen,
that's for sure, we're all just going to be kept waiting some while
longer.

Peter Smyth wrote:

wrote in message
ps.com...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/..._feature.shtml

Notice how in almost all cases on this list, while there may be savings
for singles and peak returns, the cheap day return is more expensive.

Furthermore, none of these illustrate the rail-tube-rail fares where
the fare rises are pretty steep for cheap day returns - e.g. Clapham
Junction to Finsbury Park (zone 2 to zone 2) goes from £4.40 cheap day
return to £7.00 cheap day return, Orpington to West Hampstead (zone 6
to zone 2) goes from £5.50 cheap day return to £9.70 cheap day
return.

The cheap day return fares are completely pointless though as a travelcard
would be cheaper. So the actual price would be £4.90 for CJ-FP and £6..30 for
Orp-WH.

Peter Smyth

But these are still fairly significant increases and I really don't see
why large increases in prices should hit off-peak travellers when there
is spare capacity and why travellers across the centre of London should
pay significantly more than rail only passengers.

While the £4.40 fare may become £4.90 with a travelcard, the railcard
price goes from £2.95 to £4.00 - a 33% increase as the minimum
travelcard fare is £4.90. Also, revenue from a travelcard is not
going to the same place as the cheap day return fare.

Who exactly has set these fares - ATOC?, TfL? Who can I raise my
concerns with or at least get an explanation of why cheap day returns
have been priced at these levels.

Jonathan

Neil Williams wrote:

Alternatively, it could be sold as a benefit of Oyster, as it is with
the Dutch Strippenkaart[1] - say, once you touch in for any bus
journey, you may touch in for free an unlimited number of further times
on different buses[2] within an hour, two hours or whatever. If that
offers a quick return, so be it - I don't think they'd lose a lot from
people doing that.

Plus the scenario when the bus gets terminated short of the destination
advertised on the blinds on the front at the time you boarded! I know
drivers are supposed to issue a transfer ticket, but I'm not sure that
happens often in practice. So if using PAYG Oyster you loose out by
paying for a 2nd ride.

--
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home Page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 08:19:01 +0100, Phil Richards
wrote:

Neil Williams wrote:

Alternatively, it could be sold as a benefit of Oyster, as it is with
the Dutch Strippenkaart[1] - say, once you touch in for any bus
journey, you may touch in for free an unlimited number of further times
on different buses[2] within an hour, two hours or whatever. If that
offers a quick return, so be it - I don't think they'd lose a lot from
people doing that.

Plus the scenario when the bus gets terminated short of the destination
advertised on the blinds on the front at the time you boarded! I know
drivers are supposed to issue a transfer ticket, but I'm not sure that
happens often in practice. So if using PAYG Oyster you loose out by
paying for a 2nd ride.

I was on a 24 on Thursday and got booted off at Trafalgar Square as the
route controller decided our bus was to turn at Westminster. There was
another bus behind running through but it was only when someone said "do
we have to pay again" that the controller instructed everyone from the
previous bus just to get on and not validate or pay. No transfer ticket
was issued that I could see. I think this aspect of PAYG "policy" needs
a little more explanation because a transfer may happen at a point where
there is no official to answer a question and the first bus may have
driven off.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Phil Richards wrote:

Will zonal rail tickets show origin/destination stations like they do at
present and therefore a return be A to B & back to A only? Or could I
buy a Zone 1 to 5 Rail only CDR say to go from Victoria to East Croydon
and later in the day Bromley South back to Victoria?

As I understand it, they are zonal fares, rather than zonal tickets.
So you still buy a ticket from, eg East Croydon to Clapham Junction,
but you know that it will be the same far as a ticket from Bromley
South to Lewisham, from Chingford to Bethnal Green or from High Barnet
to Camden Town.

That doesn't mean that the tickets can be used for different journeys
in the same zone - that would be what Travelcards are for...

--
Stevie D
\\\\\ ///// Bringing dating agencies to the
\\\\\\\__X__/////// common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs"
___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________

Phil Richards wrote:

Neil Williams wrote:

Alternatively, it could be sold as a benefit of Oyster, as it is with
the Dutch Strippenkaart[1] - say, once you touch in for any bus
journey, you may touch in for free an unlimited number of further times
on different buses[2] within an hour, two hours or whatever. If that
offers a quick return, so be it - I don't think they'd lose a lot from
people doing that.

Plus the scenario when the bus gets terminated short of the destination
advertised on the blinds on the front at the time you boarded! I know
drivers are supposed to issue a transfer ticket, but I'm not sure that
happens often in practice. So if using PAYG Oyster you loose out by
paying for a 2nd ride.


I regularly use a bendy bus route where buses sometimes get turned
short. When I get turfed out and get on the next bendy bus I don't
touch-in and pay again - going by the logic that I paid for the whole
journey the first time round so I ain't going to pay again!

I haven't yet been checked on the second bus when I've done this but I
don't think it's be a problem whatsoever, for two reasons:

(1) I've a feeling that the simpler calculatoresque handheld Oyster
readers merely check whether you've validated your Oyster on a number X
bus, rather than specifically validated it on the actual specific bus
you're on (as when the RPIs board they don't appear to configure their
handheld Oyster readers for that specific bus, and as they're all
focusing on one route then I think they configured it earlier for that
route, if you see what I mean).

(2) I think the revenue inspectors would be absolutely fine with it -
they're after people who are evading their fares after all.

If and when I ever get checked on a second bus when I've been turfed
off the first one early and I'm using Oyster PAYG then I'll report back
to utl and tell you the outcome. I'm almost certain I'll have nothing
dramatic to report.

wrote

this seems to mean big fare rises for some:
e.g. Surbiton to Waterloo cheap day return: now £4.20,
zone 1-6 rail only CDR: £5.70

But an Esher to Waterloo CDR is currently £5.70 (Esher being the next
station out, one stop outside the Zone 6 boundary) so it looks like a
very cunningly calculated price.

( Esher to Waterloo CDR+ Off Peak Day TC £8.70)

In fact all the '07 Rail only CDRs are priced at Single + £0.90 rather
than the usual +£0.60 or less.

--
Mike D

Michael R N Dolbear wrote:
wrote

this seems to mean big fare rises for some:
e.g. Surbiton to Waterloo cheap day return: now £4.20,
zone 1-6 rail only CDR: £5.70

But an Esher to Waterloo CDR is currently £5.70 (Esher being the next
station out, one stop outside the Zone 6 boundary) so it looks like a
very cunningly calculated price.

( Esher to Waterloo CDR+ Off Peak Day TC £8.70)

In fact all the '07 Rail only CDRs are priced at Single + £0.90 rather
than the usual +£0.60 or less.

--
Mike D

Presumably the intention has got to be to get rid of the cheap day
return over time.

Oyster PAYG is not consistent with the current terms of a cheap day
return, i.e. the facility to break the journey in either direction or
to stop the journey a station short. They should have gone for a peak
and off-peak single if they wanted to keep it. However, as has been
seen with bus fares for 2007, the peak and off-peak differential has
been dropped so I guess the idea is that the cheapest return ticket
off-peak will be the travelcard in time.

Jonathan