Bear in mind that if you forget to touch in somewhere non-gated (eg on
DLR), you now have no option but to avoid touching out, thereby
avoiding the fare altogether (unless already capped). You don't have
the option of paying the correct fare, and the fare of £1 that you
would have been prepared to pay is lost. Unjust systems encourage evasion.

Peter wrote:
This cheating has cost London £10-15 million a year. That's you and me. You
happy with that?

Well I recently "cheated" because what I wanted to do was impossible
given the system. Firstly I arrived at Hornsey and the ticket machine
wasn't working. Took the train, exited at Finsbury Park, touched in
there, got the next train to Moorgate and touched out.

Return was to go first to the West End so did that on pre-pay, then on
returning to Hornsey had to change anyway so Victoria Line from Oxford
Circus to Finsbury Park, touched out and then took a "free ride" to
Hornsey.

Now if they put a nice simple touch-in/out machine at Hornsey I could
have simply used it and would indeed have done so.

Peter wrote:
This cheating has cost London £10-15 million a year. That's you and me. You
happy with that?



Of course not. That's why I am opposed to an unfair system which
leaves people the choice of either cheating or being ripped off.

I have always been in favour of it being made easy for people to pay
reasonable fares, instead of which it is often made very difficult for
people to pay unreasonable fares.

And I am absolutely f*cking sick of being branded a cheat and a thief
just for trying to use public transport.

Why, when standing in a huge queue for a machine that turns out not to
work while the ticket office is closed, do I have to read notices
gleefully telling me how much I will have to pay if I get "caught"
without a ticket?

MIG wrote:
Why, when standing in a huge queue for a machine that turns out not to
work while the ticket office is closed, do I have to read notices
gleefully telling me how much I will have to pay if I get "caught"
without a ticket?

This is something you really want to write to the company about, and in
fact i'd urge you to. Ticket office open times have been cut a lot
lately, and this is said to be in reaction to the fact most people now
use Oyster, which can be topped up online, by phone, or of course the
machines or ticket office when available.

Unfortunately it doesn't work for everyone, as you've illustrated
above, so help us fight for better ticket office times by writing in!

wrote:
MIG wrote:
Why, when standing in a huge queue for a machine that turns out not to
work while the ticket office is closed, do I have to read notices
gleefully telling me how much I will have to pay if I get "caught"
without a ticket?

This is something you really want to write to the company about, and in
fact i'd urge you to. Ticket office open times have been cut a lot
lately, and this is said to be in reaction to the fact most people now
use Oyster, which can be topped up online, by phone, or of course the
machines or ticket office when available.

Probably they think it is more profitable not to have to pay a member
of staff at a ticket office than the amount they may lose by the
occasional free-rider.

The same applies to putting any kind of gates at the stations - there
has to be a member of staff there who is able to open the gate in case
of a problem. They cannot lock passengers in (or expect them to jump
over the gate).

Unfortunately it doesn't work for everyone, as you've illustrated
above, so help us fight for better ticket office times by writing in!

Actually I would quite like to see an option to by tickets from your
mobile. Just imagine how flexible that could be.

*If* a Travelcard holder starts a journey and validates their card at a
station outside of their zonal validity then there will be a deduction
from their PAYG purse of £1 (starting at an origin in Z2-6D) or £1.50
(starting at an origin in Zone 1). At final exit the gate or validator
will determine if any more money needs to be deducted from PAYG for the
extension journey.

I know I asked this before but there was confusion about the answer. I
still don't understand what happens if you have a Travelcard (on
Oyster), touch in within your zones of validity but are unable to touch
out at the destination.

Specifically, I am referring to the large number of people (myself
inc.) who have to touch in at Ealing Broadway (Z3), take the overground
to Paddington but cannot touch out there. How would the system know
that I didn't take the tube outside my zones of validity and failed to
touch out at the arrival station (and should therefore have a fare
deducted from my PAYG)?

Jase

James Farrar wrote:
On 27 Oct 2006 12:26:03 -0700, "
wrote:

sorry... having a few technical problems here.... :|

You work for LUL, right? You must be used to it!

Ooh sly but yeah, I catch ya drift! haha

wrote:
I know I asked this before but there was confusion about the answer. I
still don't understand what happens if you have a Travelcard (on
Oyster), touch in within your zones of validity but are unable to touch
out at the destination.

Specifically, I am referring to the large number of people (myself
inc.) who have to touch in at Ealing Broadway (Z3), take the overground
to Paddington but cannot touch out there. How would the system know
that I didn't take the tube outside my zones of validity and failed to
touch out at the arrival station (and should therefore have a fare
deducted from my PAYG)?

Its been answered somewhere around about here. If you touch in within
your valid zones, but fail to touch out, the system will assume you
stay within zones, you will not be charged.

If you fail to touch in, and touch out outside of your zones, you'll
pay £1 or £1.50 (the higher amount if its zone 1 you touch out).

If you touch in outside of zones, it will charge £1 or £1.50 as well.

So you're fine within zones, but if you touch in OR out outside of the
zones on your season ticket, you'll have this small charge.

wrote:

*If* a Travelcard holder starts a journey and validates their card at a
station outside of their zonal validity then there will be a deduction
from their PAYG purse of £1 (starting at an origin in Z2-6D) or £1.50
(starting at an origin in Zone 1). At final exit the gate or validator
will determine if any more money needs to be deducted from PAYG for the
extension journey.


I know I asked this before but there was confusion about the answer. I
still don't understand what happens if you have a Travelcard (on
Oyster), touch in within your zones of validity but are unable to touch
out at the destination.

It does not matter at all wether you touch out or not in case you have
touched in within the zones for which the travelcard on the Oyster card
is valid.

Specifically, I am referring to the large number of people (myself
inc.) who have to touch in at Ealing Broadway (Z3), take the overground
to Paddington but cannot touch out there. How would the system know
that I didn't take the tube outside my zones of validity and failed to
touch out at the arrival station (and should therefore have a fare
deducted from my PAYG)?

It does not know that. It is exactly the same situation as for a paper
Travelcard, you can use it to get through fare gates within the zones
for which it is valid but in case you travel outside the zones covered
by the card it is your responsibility to have an extension ticket (in
the paper travelcard case) or touch out your Oyster card at your
desitination, even if there are no gates or gates are open there.

--
Olof Lagerkvist
ICQ: 724451
Web: http://here.is/olof

wrote:
wrote:
I know I asked this before but there was confusion about the answer. I
still don't understand what happens if you have a Travelcard (on
Oyster), touch in within your zones of validity but are unable to touch
out at the destination.

Specifically, I am referring to the large number of people (myself
inc.) who have to touch in at Ealing Broadway (Z3), take the overground
to Paddington but cannot touch out there. How would the system know
that I didn't take the tube outside my zones of validity and failed to
touch out at the arrival station (and should therefore have a fare
deducted from my PAYG)?

Its been answered somewhere around about here. If you touch in within
your valid zones, but fail to touch out, the system will assume you
stay within zones, you will not be charged.

If you fail to touch in, and touch out outside of your zones, you'll
pay £1 or £1.50 (the higher amount if its zone 1 you touch out).



Surely that's £4?

Olof Lagerkvist wrote:
wrote:

*If* a Travelcard holder starts a journey and validates their card at a
station outside of their zonal validity then there will be a deduction
from their PAYG purse of £1 (starting at an origin in Z2-6D) or £1.50
(starting at an origin in Zone 1). At final exit the gate or validator
will determine if any more money needs to be deducted from PAYG for the
extension journey.


I know I asked this before but there was confusion about the answer. I
still don't understand what happens if you have a Travelcard (on
Oyster), touch in within your zones of validity but are unable to touch
out at the destination.

It does not matter at all wether you touch out or not in case you have
touched in within the zones for which the travelcard on the Oyster card
is valid.

Specifically, I am referring to the large number of people (myself
inc.) who have to touch in at Ealing Broadway (Z3), take the overground
to Paddington but cannot touch out there. How would the system know
that I didn't take the tube outside my zones of validity and failed to
touch out at the arrival station (and should therefore have a fare
deducted from my PAYG)?

It does not know that. It is exactly the same situation as for a paper
Travelcard, you can use it to get through fare gates within the zones
for which it is valid but in case you travel outside the zones covered
by the card it is your responsibility to have an extension ticket (in
the paper travelcard case) or touch out your Oyster card at your
desitination, even if there are no gates or gates are open there.


The extension ticket in the paper travelcard case is £4, generally
more than PAYG for the whole journey. So, in fact, you have to get out
of the train, go to the exit, touch in, go back and wait for another
train.