"DaveP" wrote in message
52...
I suspect that this kind of thing (Standard people sitting in First
on
suburban lines in London) is very common, where there are few
ticket

It's probably more common because standard is full, and whilst it's
admirable that the RPI's did their duty I feel the train company
would be
better off concentrating on ensuring the size of train matches the
number
of those travelling. Although maybe the overcrowding is deliberate
to
encourage people to buy first class?


When you say "full" do you mean that all standard class areas have
fully occupied seats and no standing room, or the more usual, no
desirable seats available (occupied by people/bags) and the rear
carriage is half empty as it means a long walk at the destination to
leave the station.
Its fair to say that buying a ticket doesn't guarantee a seat, just
travel (seat reservations excepted).

When you say "full" do you mean that all standard class areas have
fully occupied seats and no standing room, or the more usual, no
desirable seats available (occupied by people/bags) and the rear
carriage is half empty as it means a long walk at the destination to
leave the station.

That was my interpretation of other peoples actions, as I said at the end,
I personally wouldn't, because I don't want the argument about the rights
or wrongs of it and the ultimate PF. In fact as a season ticket holder I
don't think that's an option if I'm caught in first - they just confiscate
the ticket on the spot because you should have known better. But it doesn't
make it frustrating to see spare seats going begging for the journey - the
last stop before everyone gets off and you know they're not going to be
used.

The train I get each morning has all its seats occupied by people (I would
always ask someone to move their bag/feet/shopping or move out so I can use
the blocked window seat). This is at 6.50 on a 4 coach train with two
virtually empty first class compartments which could seat maybe 18 people
each.

Regards, Dave

Matt Wheeler wrote:
When you say "full" do you mean that all standard class areas have
fully occupied seats and no standing room, or the more usual, no
desirable seats available (occupied by people/bags) and the rear
carriage is half empty as it means a long walk at the destination to
leave the station.

I've been on a couple of services where I could genuinely say that it
was full (all seats). This is more likely in the rush hour, where
people will ask passengers to move bags and coats off otherwise empty
seats.

At most other times, it's a case of people trying to keep empty seats
next to them - and people are too scared to ask them to move whatever
it is they've put there. Should this count as a full to capacity train?
It's certainly the majority. I have no hesitation to ask someone to
move something, but you will often get the look that says 'That's MY
seat - how dare you take it'. You just have to get on with it, or be
willing to stand.

As for half the train being empty, that's also true at times.

Jonathan

Jonathan Morris wrote:

Matt Wheeler wrote:
When you say "full" do you mean that all standard class areas have
fully occupied seats and no standing room, or the more usual, no
desirable seats available (occupied by people/bags) and the rear
carriage is half empty as it means a long walk at the destination to
leave the station.

I've been on a couple of services where I could genuinely say that it
was full (all seats). This is more likely in the rush hour, where
people will ask passengers to move bags and coats off otherwise empty
seats.

You're a lucky man if you've only been on a couple of trains where
there are no available seats - it's not an unusual situation in the
rush hour!


At most other times, it's a case of people trying to keep empty seats
next to them - and people are too scared to ask them to move whatever
it is they've put there. Should this count as a full to capacity train?
It's certainly the majority. I have no hesitation to ask someone to
move something, but you will often get the look that says 'That's MY
seat - how dare you take it'. You just have to get on with it, or be
willing to stand.

People can be pathetic wilting violets in such situations - as you say
just ask!

Mizter T wrote:
You're a lucky man if you've only been on a couple of trains where
there are no available seats - it's not an unusual situation in the
rush hour!

Depends on the route, obviously. Some morning trains will be packed,
but others start from just one station back and are pretty empty. By
the time it gets to Finsbury Park, it's pretty packed but not
ridiculously so.

People can be pathetic wilting violets in such situations - as you say
just ask!

I can sort of understand a family or group considering a train to be
full when you can't get seats together, but few trains (bar the rush
hour) are literally packed as people say (such as those who moan to the
media about how our trains are always overcrowded). It's just that you
may have to split up to get seated. In some rare instances, people will
volunteer to move so people can sit together. I think even I might be a
little too shy to ask people to swap seats!

Jonathan

A long time ago (1984 ish) I was on a First Class Only service from
Crewe I seem to rembember. Do such things still exist. The RPI let me of
on the grounds that it was the only train to get me to where I was going
but he said I should technically have not got on it at all!

mysteryflyer

"Mystery Flyer" wrote in message
...
A long time ago (1984 ish) I was on a First Class Only service from
Crewe I seem to rembember. Do such things still exist. The RPI let me of
on the grounds that it was the only train to get me to where I was going
but he said I should technically have not got on it at all!

That was presumably the Manchester Pullman. It, and its predecessor the
Midland Pullman, were the only first class only scheduled daytime trains of
the BR era, and between them ran from about 1960 to 1984. There were also a
few trains formed of first class sleeping cars only, such as the 'Night
Limited' (Euston - Glasgow).

In the Victorian era first class only trains were not unusual - the Great
North of Scotland Railway even ran a train which was advertised as first
class only, but third class accommodation available for servants
accompanying passengers travelling first class.

AFAIK there haven't been any first class only scheduled trains since 1984.

Peter

"Peter Masson" wrote in message
...

"Mystery Flyer" wrote in message
...
A long time ago (1984 ish) I was on a First Class Only service from
Crewe I seem to rembember. Do such things still exist. The RPI let me of
on the grounds that it was the only train to get me to where I was going
but he said I should technically have not got on it at all!

That was presumably the Manchester Pullman. It, and its predecessor the
Midland Pullman, were the only first class only scheduled daytime trains
of
the BR era, and between them ran from about 1960 to 1984. There were also
a
few trains formed of first class sleeping cars only, such as the 'Night
Limited' (Euston - Glasgow).

In the Victorian era first class only trains were not unusual - the Great
North of Scotland Railway even ran a train which was advertised as first
class only, but third class accommodation available for servants
accompanying passengers travelling first class.

AFAIK there haven't been any first class only scheduled trains since 1984.

Peter

The only first class only we worked on the Southern was the Boat Trains
Waterloo/Southampton Docks where my guards at Clapham Jct and RPI's at
Cannon Street at a later date were employed in 'Cap doffing duties'

Peter Masson wrote:
"Mystery Flyer" wrote in message
...
A long time ago (1984 ish) I was on a First Class Only service from
Crewe I seem to rembember. Do such things still exist. The RPI let me of
on the grounds that it was the only train to get me to where I was going
but he said I should technically have not got on it at all!

That was presumably the Manchester Pullman. It, and its predecessor the
Midland Pullman, were the only first class only scheduled daytime trains of
the BR era, and between them ran from about 1960 to 1984. There were also a
few trains formed of first class sleeping cars only, such as the 'Night
Limited' (Euston - Glasgow).


Thank you it was indeed the Manchester Pullman. I remember it more
clearly now!

mysteryflyer

Jonathan Morris wrote:

Mizter T wrote:
You're a lucky man if you've only been on a couple of trains where
there are no available seats - it's not an unusual situation in the
rush hour!

Depends on the route, obviously. Some morning trains will be packed,
but others start from just one station back and are pretty empty. By
the time it gets to Finsbury Park, it's pretty packed but not
ridiculously so.

True - the notion that all rush-hour trains are packed to the gills is
an incorrect one.


People can be pathetic wilting violets in such situations - as you say
just ask!

I can sort of understand a family or group considering a train to be
full when you can't get seats together, but few trains (bar the rush
hour) are literally packed as people say (such as those who moan to the
media about how our trains are always overcrowded). It's just that you
may have to split up to get seated. In some rare instances, people will
volunteer to move so people can sit together. I think even I might be a
little too shy to ask people to swap seats!


If you're with children then I don't think it unreasonable to ask
passengers if they might be willing to swap so at least some of your
group can sit together.

And I'm quite receptive to moving so that a family, or perhaps another
group, can all sit together - indeed I will volunteer, unprompted, to
do just that. Dare I suggest that some members of this group, having
found their 'ideal' seat, would not be so willing!

The other thing that amuses of course is, on an Intercity service, the
one or two passengers who install themselves at a table, spread out all
over it and then seem most perturbed when others wish to intrude on
their private patch and utilise one or more of the spare seats. Table
seats are great, so long as one remembers they are for sharing!