Bill Harris wrote:

As an aside to this thread. Is it no lomger possible to upgrade to
First legitimately?

Only by doing so at the booking office, never on the train. The reason
is that otherwise, there's no "penalty" for upgrading on the train and
many people would just chance it.
--
Joyce Whitchurch, Stalybridge, UK
=================================

Why not? I've done it several times in the couple of years the same way that
you describe.

"Bill Harris" wrote in message
ups.com...

As an aside to this thread. Is it no lomger possible to upgrade to
First legitimately?

In the 1960s I travelled a lot using a rail warrant (Second Class in
those days) and I regularly upgraded to First - if I had time I would
do it at the ticket office or if the train was busy I would sit in
first and pay the excess fare - definately only the difference between
first and second fares. I was in the Merchant Navy and the extra
luggage allowance was significant, we had to be prepaered to be away
for up to a year and able to survive from Arctic cold to Tropical heat.

Bill Harris

I have sat in first class on a long distance train with a standard class
ticket with the aim to upgrade, and none of the crews have ever tried to
penalise me.

When the conductor takes my ticket, I simply say that I would like to
upgrade to first class, pay the difference and everybody is happy..

"Joyce Whitchurch" wrote in message
...
Bill Harris wrote:

As an aside to this thread. Is it no lomger possible to upgrade to
First legitimately?

Only by doing so at the booking office, never on the train. The reason is
that otherwise, there's no "penalty" for upgrading on the train and many
people would just chance it.
--
Joyce Whitchurch, Stalybridge, UK
=================================

In message , at 10:16:39 on Sun, 21 Jan
2007, Joyce Whitchurch remarked:
As an aside to this thread. Is it no lomger possible to upgrade to
First legitimately?

Only by doing so at the booking office, never on the train.

Although MML at weekends have been known to announce the availability of
their "Weekend First" upgrades, on the train, and collect the money
while doing the ticket check.

The reason is that otherwise, there's no "penalty" for upgrading on the
train and many people would just chance it.


--
Roland Perry

MIG wrote:

But the whole point of first class is so that people pay not to have to
sit next to people like you (or me).

Empty seats around them is the whole intention, which is ridiculous in
overcrowded trains. It would be better to get rid of the concept of
first class altogether. For anyone who really misses it on that sort
of line, where there is no tea service or anything, they just need to
bring a hanky with them to put on the back of the seat.

The worst I've found is on sub-urban commuter routes where very few of the
regular stock have first class but occasionally one gets put on. Naturally
hardly anyone's got a first class ticket and the result is either have
everyone squeeze into standard class like sardines or some have to go in
first.

When you say "full" do you mean that all standard class areas have
fully occupied seats and no standing room, or the more usual, no
desirable seats available (occupied by people/bags) and the rear
carriage is half empty as it means a long walk at the destination to
leave the station.

That was my interpretation of other peoples actions, as I said at the end,
I personally wouldn't, because I don't want the argument about the rights
or wrongs of it and the ultimate PF. In fact as a season ticket holder I
don't think that's an option if I'm caught in first - they just confiscate
the ticket on the spot because you should have known better. But it doesn't
make it frustrating to see spare seats going begging for the journey - the
last stop before everyone gets off and you know they're not going to be
used.

The train I get each morning has all its seats occupied by people (I would
always ask someone to move their bag/feet/shopping or move out so I can use
the blocked window seat). This is at 6.50 on a 4 coach train with two
virtually empty first class compartments which could seat maybe 18 people
each.

Regards, Dave

But the whole point of first class is so that people pay not to have
to sit next to people like you (or me).

On long distances I can understand this, along with the seat service that's
what you pay for (although I imagine in most cases, that's what your
company pays for).

It's not a problem having first class on commuter trains if the rest of the
train has space to carrying everyone who wants to travel. All this crap the
train companies spout about people having flexible tickets and not knowing
when they might travel is ********. They've made a financial choice to put
short trains on and should just say so.

Regards, Dave

wrote in message
.uk...
I have sat in first class on a long distance train with a standard class
ticket with the aim to upgrade, and none of the crews have ever tried to
penalise me.

Different rules apply in Penalty Fares areas.

You're correct that elsewhere on National Rail, unless you're using a Season
Ticket, there's no penalty for asking for an upgrade in 1st Class from an
ordinary walk-on Standard ticket beyond the appropriate difference in fares.
That being said, the fares structure nowadays is so convoluted that - except
for an upgrade to Weekend First - it might be quite difficult working out
what you'd actually end up being asked to pay.

--
Walter Mann

The worst I've found is on sub-urban commuter routes where very few of
the regular stock have first class but occasionally one gets put on.
Naturally hardly anyone's got a first class ticket and the result is
either have everyone squeeze into standard class like sardines or some
have to go in first.

You might like to check with your TOC - my line (FCC) regard it as first
class if it's advertised in the timetable, otherwise it's usable by anyone.
Anyone holding a first class ticket wouldn't aim to board such a train
anyway (though it's probably a TOC specific thing).

I regularly used the one train in the morning and two in the evening which
are formed of 317 units carrying first class accomodation which were not
timetable-advertised with no issues, it was generally the difference
between getting a seat and not getting a seat.

There is sometimes a discussion with the inexperienced RPI's but once
they've checked it out they politely come back and accept standard tickets
(with the "ooh I've just come" look wiped from their faces).

Regards,
Dave

those days) and I regularly upgraded to First - if I had time I would
do it at the ticket office or if the train was busy I would sit in
first and pay the excess fare - definately only the difference between

You can do this if you have a normal ticket, but not a season ticket. If
you have a season ticket you are treated as a fare-dodger and they will
likely withdraw the season ticket at the same time for inappropriate use.

The conditions of carriage state the ticket upgrade must be purchased
before the journey begins if you have a season.

Regards, Dave