whos2091 wrote:
However, there is a limit to the capacity you can get from such a bus
service without more infrastructure (at very high frequencies, buses
will need to be able to overtake each other easily). Longer vehicles
will be needed (longer than the current bendy buses) - and that brings
us right back to trams or tram-like technology (e.g. optically-guided
multi-articulated buses).

As a daily user of the 207 or 607 route, I am obviously supportive of
the tram. However I have been surprised, when talking to people, about
the strength of local opposition. Moreover, the more I use the route,
the more I feel that some quite cheap measures (a few more bus lanes,
some prioritisation at lights, better management of the driving
schedules) could be put in place within 12 months to really speed up
the bus routes on the Uxbridge Road. I would suggest that the project
should be put on hold for 18 months while some other measures are
tried.

I have read again and again about the impossibility of putting more
buses on this route and I simply do not believe it to be true.

Perhaps not now; the whole point is to cater for future growth in both
car and public transport traffic. There are some extremely large
developments coming in Southall (gas works) and Shepherd's Bush (White
City), bringing both residential and employment growth along the corridor.

Whilst further bus priority measures might improve capacity now, there
is a practical limit to how frequently you can run buses along this
route. I suspect buses are *already* prioritised at some lights along
this route as part of the SCOOT traffic control system - however, users
often don't notice the prioritisation because it works by juggling green
time for each arm at the junction, rather than by always letting
approaching buses through without considering the queues building up on
the other arms of the junction.

An ultra-high bus frequency - to meet the demand predicted on this
corridor in 10-20 years' time - would need much more forceful signal
prioritisation to prevent excessive bunching-up of buses. In turn, that
prioritisation will cause big queues to build up on roads joining or
crossing the Uxbridge Road - which in turn will impact upon other bus
services in the area.

This is the same problem magnified for Cross River Tram. Bus-based
proposals for Cross River were ruled out because the higher frequency
required to deliver the same service was impossible to get across major
east-west routes in central London (Holborn for buses, Euston Road for
cars). I recall seeing mention of 60-80 buses per hour needed to meet
the demand, compared to 30-40 trams per hour.

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

James Farrar wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:53:20 -0000, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote:

James Farrar wrote:

Most if not all of the three councils were won on a platform that includes
opposing the tram - this is a case of politicians fulfilling their
promises!
Treasure it while it lasts, it'll be a long time till the next one!
:-)
Hammersmith & Fulham Conservatives also pledged to cut Council Tax - and
they did.

And we'll see how that affects their funding from central Government
next time round...

It does help the council tax situation when central government gives a
more generous grant to the council than usual.

Personally, I find it irritating that I get sent a glossy
self-promotional magazine from the Conservative council every month when
the Conservative assembly members are the first to jump on the Mayor for
doing exactly the same thing...

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Dave A wrote:

Personally, I find it irritating that I get sent a glossy self-promotional
magazine from the Conservative council every month when the Conservative
assembly members are the first to jump on the Mayor for doing exactly the
same thing...

I never get a magazine from the Mayor!

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Dave A wrote:

Personally, I find it irritating that I get sent a glossy self-promotional
magazine from the Conservative council every month when the Conservative
assembly members are the first to jump on the Mayor for doing exactly the
same thing...

I never get a magazine from the Mayor!

Haven't you seen "The Londoner"? It gets delivered to my house, and
deposited in my Tube station once a month on a Saturday.


--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On 26 Jan, 20:17, Dave A wrote:
alexterrellwrote:

On 25 Jan, 21:07, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote:
martyn dawe wrote:
The trouble with the English, is that they all think of trams as something
out a 50s film, They don't go to places which have modern tram systems ?You mean like Croydon?

Why would someone from Ealing go to Croydon? The have an IKEA on the
North Circular.

In general, lack of perspective seems to be a problem with the town
planners. They probably go on holiday to Spain or Florida, and miss out
seeing what has been done with trams and bikes in Scandinavia,
Netherlands and Germany.

Which town planners are you levelling this at? It's the (borough)
politicians who are opposed to the tram; the (borough) planners are
probably the same ones as when the tram was originally proposed. I also
know that quite a number of borough planners have seen what has been
done with bikes in the Netherlands and Germany!

--
To be honest, I can't speak for Ealing. In my part of Kent, regarding
cycle routes, the county council seems to be fairly forward thinking,
whilst the local town council seems to believe that only cars vote, and
have a policy towards cyclists not far off from shoot to kill.

I remember when the BBC took a town planner to Gronigen and he seemed
to think he was on another planet. Its good to hear some of them are
seeing the Netherlands and Germany.

The most innovative thinking on transport policy comes out of Northern
Europe, which is not where Brits, including town planners, go on
holiday. I suppose if the town planners go for a work visit to the
Netherlands, the newspapers will accuse them of going on a jolly.

Personally, I used to live in an area near the tram route. I'd be
inclined to be in favour having been impressed with tram systems in
German cities.

Dave A wrote:

Personally, I find it irritating that I get sent a glossy
self-promotional magazine from the Conservative council every month when
the Conservative assembly members are the first to jump on the Mayor for
doing exactly the same thing...

I never get a magazine from the Mayor!

Haven't you seen "The Londoner"? It gets delivered to my house, and
deposited in my Tube station once a month on a Saturday.

I never get it. And it's not deposited at either of my local train stations.

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 22:43:30 +0000, Dave A wrote:

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Dave A wrote:

Personally, I find it irritating that I get sent a glossy self-promotional
magazine from the Conservative council every month when the Conservative
assembly members are the first to jump on the Mayor for doing exactly the
same thing...

I never get a magazine from the Mayor!

Haven't you seen "The Londoner"? It gets delivered to my house, and
deposited in my Tube station once a month on a Saturday.

At mine, it goes directly from the doormat to the green box.

In message , James Farrar
writes
On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 22:43:30 +0000, Dave A wrote:

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Dave A wrote:

Personally, I find it irritating that I get sent a glossy self-promotional
magazine from the Conservative council every month when the Conservative
assembly members are the first to jump on the Mayor for doing exactly the
same thing...

I never get a magazine from the Mayor!

Haven't you seen "The Londoner"? It gets delivered to my house, and
deposited in my Tube station once a month on a Saturday.

At mine, it goes directly from the doormat to the green box.

Once a month?! I though it was a 6th monthly publication :O (or similar)
Maybe the distributors daren't travel this far out? {ok, can't actually
think of a *decent* reason why I get the publication so infrequently.
weird.}

--
Paul G
Typing from Barking

Paul G wrote:
In message , James Farrar
writes
On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 22:43:30 +0000, Dave A wrote:

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Dave A wrote:

Personally, I find it irritating that I get sent a glossy
self-promotional
magazine from the Conservative council every month when the
Conservative
assembly members are the first to jump on the Mayor for doing
exactly the
same thing...

I never get a magazine from the Mayor!

Haven't you seen "The Londoner"? It gets delivered to my house, and
deposited in my Tube station once a month on a Saturday.

At mine, it goes directly from the doormat to the green box.

Once a month?! I though it was a 6th monthly publication :O (or similar)
Maybe the distributors daren't travel this far out? {ok, can't actually
think of a *decent* reason why I get the publication so infrequently.
weird.}

http://www.london.gov.uk/londoner/subscribe.jsp

(Not saying that you should get it, just pointing out what they say
about door drops!)

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 Dave A wrote:

Once a month?! I though it was a 6th monthly publication :O (or similar)
Maybe the distributors daren't travel this far out? {ok, can't actually
think of a *decent* reason why I get the publication so infrequently.
weird.}

http://www.london.gov.uk/londoner/subscribe.jsp

(Not saying that you should get it, just pointing out what they say
about door drops!)

Door drops here (Ealing) are, to put it politely, intermittent.

The same used to be the case for free newspapers, but now they've
stopped coming altogether.
--
Thoss