In article , Roland Perry
writes
The DLR also does two right-angle bends either side of Heron Quays.

I don't think so! It's straight from West India Quay to Heron Quays,
though there's a right-angle bend south of the latter.

* There is cross-plaform interchange between the Northern Line
branches at Kennington.
I think the City branch of the Northern Line goes west of Mornington
Crescent.

Well west.

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Well west.

So it will go to: Euston - west of MC - Camden Town - ... -
Edgware?

On May 8, 4:06 pm, alex_t wrote:
Well west.

So it will go to: Euston - west of MC - Camden Town - ... -
Edgware?



This was the reason why, after the derailment on the crossover at
Camden Town, the service was simplified so that all Bank branch went
to the Edgware branch, and all Charing Cross branch went to the Barnet
branch.

In article .com, MIG
writes
So it will go to: Euston - west of MC - Camden Town - ... -
Edgware?
This was the reason why, after the derailment on the crossover at
Camden Town, the service was simplified so that all Bank branch went
to the Edgware branch, and all Charing Cross branch went to the Barnet
branch.

No, the junctions can allow either branch to connect to either branch,
and at various times the restricted service has worked either way.

IIRC, after the derailment they picked the pairing that didn't use the
failed points.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
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On May 9, 8:49 pm, "Clive D. W. Feather" c...@on-the-
train.demon.co.uk wrote:
In article .com, MIG
writes

So it will go to: Euston - west of MC - Camden Town - ... -
Edgware?
This was the reason why, after the derailment on the crossover at
Camden Town, the service was simplified so that all Bank branch went
to the Edgware branch, and all Charing Cross branch went to the Barnet
branch.

No, the junctions can allow either branch to connect to either branch,
and at various times the restricted service has worked either way.

IIRC, after the derailment they picked the pairing that didn't use the
failed points.



Looking at it now, I can't see where there's any set of points that
could be avoided by any option, although they could avoid changing the
points and treat them as plain rail in a fixed direction.

In article om, MIG
writes
This was the reason why, after the derailment on the crossover at
Camden Town, the service was simplified so that all Bank branch went
to the Edgware branch, and all Charing Cross branch went to the Barnet
branch.

IIRC, after the derailment they picked the pairing that didn't use the
failed points.
Looking at it now, I can't see where there's any set of points that
could be avoided by any option, although they could avoid changing the
points and treat them as plain rail in a fixed direction.

Of course you're right there. Possibly they picked the *position* that
didn't involve going over the track that was derailed on.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

In article .com,
alex_t writes
Well west.
So it will go to: Euston - west of MC - Camden Town - ... -
Edgware?

At Euston the two branches of the Northern Line are approximately at
right angles. The CX branch runs along Eversholt Street, while the Bank
branch takes a large loop, converging with the CX branch just south of
Camden Town. There are then the complex junctions, after which the two
branches follow along the two main roads northwards.

--
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Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
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On Tue, 8 May 2007, Clive D. W. Feather wrote:

In article .com, alex_t
writes

Well west.

So it will go to: Euston - west of MC - Camden Town - ... -
Edgware?

At Euston the two branches of the Northern Line are approximately at
right angles. The CX branch runs along Eversholt Street,

Whereabouts does it head over to Tottenham Court Road, if i may ask?

while the Bank branch takes a large loop, converging with the CX branch
just south of Camden Town. There are then the complex junctions, after
which the two branches follow along the two main roads northwards.

idle-speculation

I was wondering, as i was sat on it this morning, whether it would be
possible to construct a connector between the Bank and CX branches around
about Euston, so that they could act as two arms of a loop, with trains
running Kennington - Bank - Euston - Charing Cross - Kennington and vice
versa. Based on what you say, perhaps not.

If so, though, it could be a useful way of focusing trains on the
termini-to-town section of the line, which i assume is the most heavily
loaded, either for extra trains during the peaks (which wouldn't need to
negotiate the delay-inducing Camden Town chicanery) or off-peak (when
demand to the suburbs is less). I don't know where you'd put the
platforms, how much worse the extra set of junctions would make the line's
reliability, or how confusing it would be for passengers.

Looking at tis map of Euston on John's site:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...9/lteuston.gif

.... it seems that it might be plausible. For the clockwise route, drive a
tunnel from the northbound Charing Cross branch some way south of the
platform, drop down to the level between the two branches, run along under
the branch, then dive to join the southbound Bank branch just 'north' of
the platform, perhaps exploiting the old northbound alignment. For the
anticlockwise route, start your tunnel from the northbound Bank branch at
what remains of the northbound alignment, and is now a reversing siding,
to the 'south' of the platforms; climb over the southbound Bank platform,
turn north, and loop round to join the southbound Charing Cross branch
just north of its platform. Provided there's as much vertical separation
between the branches as i hope there is, and provided there's nothing
awkward underground to the north of the Bank branch platforms (er, Euston
station itself?), this would avoid some of the major complaints - all
trains to Bank and Charing Cross would go from the same platform (IYSWIM),
and there would be enough track in 'limbo' between the main routes of the
branches to hold a train or two, so helping avoid head-of-line blocking -
rendering this idea merely bad, rather than terrible.

/idle-speculation

Hmm. That map implies that the northbound City track passes *under* the
Victoria line, whereas this cut-away drawing:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...9/lteusmod.jpg

Shows it passing *over* it. Anyone know which is right?

tom

--
The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid
are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

On May 9, 7:11 pm, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 8 May 2007, Clive D. W. Feather wrote:

In article .com, alex_t
writes

Well west.

So it will go to: Euston - west of MC - Camden Town - ... -
Edgware?

At Euston the two branches of the Northern Line are approximately at
right angles. The CX branch runs along Eversholt Street,

Whereabouts does it head over to Tottenham Court Road, if i may ask?


I think it must run under Drummond Street and then turn south at the
junction with Hampstead Road, although the old entrance is at the
corner of Euston Street, but I don't see how it can be that far south,
given how far under the main concourse the platforms are.



while the Bank branch takes a large loop, converging with the CX branch
just south of Camden Town. There are then the complex junctions, after
which the two branches follow along the two main roads northwards.

idle-speculation

I was wondering, as i was sat on it this morning, whether it would be
possible to construct a connector between the Bank and CX branches around
about Euston, so that they could act as two arms of a loop, with trains
running Kennington - Bank - Euston - Charing Cross - Kennington and vice
versa. Based on what you say, perhaps not.

If so, though, it could be a useful way of focusing trains on the
termini-to-town section of the line, which i assume is the most heavily
loaded, either for extra trains during the peaks (which wouldn't need to
negotiate the delay-inducing Camden Town chicanery) or off-peak (when
demand to the suburbs is less). I don't know where you'd put the
platforms, how much worse the extra set of junctions would make the line's
reliability, or how confusing it would be for passengers.


They are at quite different levels though.



Looking at tis map of Euston on John's site:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...9/lteuston.gif

... it seems that it might be plausible. For the clockwise route, drive a
tunnel from the northbound Charing Cross branch some way south of the
platform, drop down to the level between the two branches, run along under
the branch, then dive to join the southbound Bank branch just 'north' of
the platform, perhaps exploiting the old northbound alignment. For the
anticlockwise route, start your tunnel from the northbound Bank branch at
what remains of the northbound alignment, and is now a reversing siding,
to the 'south' of the platforms; climb over the southbound Bank platform,
turn north, and loop round to join the southbound Charing Cross branch
just north of its platform. Provided there's as much vertical separation
between the branches as i hope there is, and provided there's nothing
awkward underground to the north of the Bank branch platforms (er, Euston
station itself?), this would avoid some of the major complaints - all
trains to Bank and Charing Cross would go from the same platform (IYSWIM),
and there would be enough track in 'limbo' between the main routes of the
branches to hold a train or two, so helping avoid head-of-line blocking -
rendering this idea merely bad, rather than terrible.


Wouldn't that mean two separate platforms for trains to Charing Cross
though, depending on whether looping or coming from Camden?



/idle-speculation

Hmm. That map implies that the northbound City track passes *under* the
Victoria line, whereas this cut-away drawing:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...9/lteusmod.jpg

Shows it passing *over* it. Anyone know which is right?



Quail agrees that the Northern City goes over the Victoria.



tom

--
The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid
are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

On Wed, 9 May 2007, MIG wrote:

On May 9, 7:11 pm, Tom Anderson wrote:

I was wondering, as i was sat on it this morning, whether it would be
possible to construct a connector between the Bank and CX branches
around about Euston, so that they could act as two arms of a loop, with
trains running Kennington - Bank - Euston - Charing Cross - Kennington
and vice versa. Based on what you say, perhaps not.

For the clockwise route, drive a tunnel from the northbound Charing
Cross branch some way south of the platform, drop down to the level
between the two branches, run along under the branch, then dive to join
the southbound Bank branch just 'north' of the platform, perhaps
exploiting the old northbound alignment. For the anticlockwise route,
start your tunnel from the northbound Bank branch at what remains of
the northbound alignment, and is now a reversing siding, to the 'south'
of the platforms; climb over the southbound Bank platform, turn north,
and loop round to join the southbound Charing Cross branch just north
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
of its platform. Provided there's as much vertical separation between
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
the branches as i hope there is, and provided there's nothing awkward
underground to the north of the Bank branch platforms (er, Euston
station itself?), this would avoid some of the major complaints - all
trains to Bank and Charing Cross would go from the same platform
(IYSWIM), and there would be enough track in 'limbo' between the main
routes of the branches to hold a train or two, so helping avoid
head-of-line blocking - rendering this idea merely bad, rather than
terrible.

Wouldn't that mean two separate platforms for trains to Charing Cross
though, depending on whether looping or coming from Camden?

No - see highlighted bit above.

tom

--
Throwin' Lyle's liquor away is like pickin' a fight with a meat packing
plant! -- Ray Smuckles