On Sat, 9 Jun 2007 20:17 +0100 (BST), (Colin
Rosenstiel) wrote:

It's more often the other way round (other than in almost stationary
traffic when in effect cycles are moving ion a virtual lane). Buses cut
in on cyclists. Some cycle lanes actively encourage it by stopping at bus
stops.

This is true, and it's happened to me a few times. In the
Netherlands, however, bus drivers seem quite happy to pull in behind
the cyclist without being intimidating if it is not safe to overtake
in the space available before the stop.

It's another world, sadly.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 9 Jun 2007 12:46 +0100 (BST), (Colin
Rosenstiel) wrote:

As a cyclist I find bendies a nightmare. Some of them even admit
they are
a danger to cyclists by displaying yellow triangles on their rear
near
sides.

Presumably to discourage cyclists from overtaking the bus on the
nearside, as this is common, but extremely dangerous, practice with
any bus or indeed any other large vehicle.

It is more dangerous to do this on a bendy than a minibus, but one
should not do it on any kind of bus unless there is a marked cycle
lane

[snip]

Anyone who believes that a bike lane is any kind of safety advantage
in such circumstances is heading for a Darwin award, and will deserve
it.

A bike lane does encourage traffic jams to line up more neatly,
thereby encouraging cyclists to zip past them on the inside more
quickly. The magic paint provides no protection against cars turning
right through a gap left for them by thoughtful motorists, no
protection from doors being flung open by passengers deciding its
quicker to walk, no protection against killing little old ladies
crossing the street and threading their way through the jam, no
protection against lorries (or cars) turning left to get out of the
jam.

I wouldn't say never pass on the inside. I would say, always, lane
or not, be very careful when you do pass on the inside.

Jeremy Parker

Jeremy Parker wrote:

A bike lane does encourage traffic jams to line up more neatly,
thereby encouraging cyclists to zip past them on the inside more
quickly. The magic paint provides no protection against cars turning
right through a gap left for them by thoughtful motorists, no
protection from doors being flung open by passengers deciding its
quicker to walk, no protection against killing little old ladies
crossing the street and threading their way through the jam,

You see the cyclist as the victim and the old lady as the problem?

On 9 Jun, 12:46, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
As a cyclist I find bendies a nightmare. Some of them even admit they are
a danger to cyclists by displaying yellow triangles on their rear near
sides. Yet they pull in on cyclists at the side of the road and are too
long for cyclists to safely pass them at most stops, unlike conventional
buses.

How do cyclists manage with articulate lorries then which are even
longer? Or should be ban those too?

B2003

On 11 Jun, 11:23, Boltar wrote:
How do cyclists manage with articulate lorries then which are even
longer? Or should be ban those too?

There is a difference, which is that buses need to stop at the side of
the road every hundred yards, whereas generally lorries don't have
that need. This sets up a situation where the bus is placed more into
conflict with bicycles than any other form of vehicle. Also, artics
are very rare in London.

BRB Class 465.

On 11 Jun, 11:44, BRB Class 465 wrote:
On 11 Jun, 11:23, Boltar wrote:

How do cyclists manage with articulate lorries then which are even
longer? Or should be ban those too?

There is a difference, which is that buses need to stop at the side of
the road every hundred yards, whereas generally lorries don't have
that need.

Bus stops are pretty visible , even to cyclists. I just don't see the
issue - dont ride up the inside of a bus and you won't get squashed if
they pull over or turn. Whats the problem?

B2003

In article .com,
(BRB Class 465) wrote:

On 11 Jun, 11:23, Boltar wrote:
How do cyclists manage with articulate lorries then which are even
longer? Or should be ban those too?

There is a difference, which is that buses need to stop at the side
of the road every hundred yards, whereas generally lorries don't have
that need. This sets up a situation where the bus is placed more
into conflict with bicycles than any other form of vehicle. Also,
artics
are very rare in London.

And also, how many articulated lorries are 18 metres long?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
We have had claims from cyclists that they have been terrified to find
themselves crowded against safety barriers by bendy buses making left
turns.

I have to say, as a cyclist, that in such situations the actions of the
cyclist are often contributory.

If the bendy bus is stationary in the lane, waiting to turn left, and the
cyclist rides up the inside of the line of traffic (i.e. overtaking on the
inside) and positions themself between the bus and the barrier, then they
are asking for trouble. They should be stopping behind the last stationary
vehicle in the traffic queue.

Similarly, if the cyclist is the first to arrive at the line, waiting to
turn left, and they sit in the gutter, adjacent to the barrier, then they
are not protecting themselves from other vehicles. In such situations, I
always position myself in the centre of the left-turn lane, to ensure that
no vehicle can pull up and sit to my right - they have to stop behind me and
wait for me to clear the corner before proceeding.

As a cyclist you have to foresee these situations and act accordingly.

On Jun 9, 12:37 pm, "Jack Taylor" wrote:
Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
We have had claims from cyclists that they have been terrified to find
themselves crowded against safety barriers by bendy buses making left
turns.

I have to say, as a cyclist, that in such situations the actions of the
cyclist are often contributory.

If the bendy bus is stationary in the lane, waiting to turn left, and the
cyclist rides up the inside of the line of traffic (i.e. overtaking on the
inside) and positions themself between the bus and the barrier, then they
are asking for trouble. They should be stopping behind the last stationary
vehicle in the traffic queue.

Similarly, if the cyclist is the first to arrive at the line, waiting to
turn left, and they sit in the gutter, adjacent to the barrier, then they
are not protecting themselves from other vehicles. In such situations, I
always position myself in the centre of the left-turn lane, to ensure that
no vehicle can pull up and sit to my right - they have to stop behind me and
wait for me to clear the corner before proceeding.

As a cyclist you have to foresee these situations and act accordingly.



Bendy buses are a silly idea for a city like London. Everyone knows
it and, in real life, pedestrians and cyclists and possibly others are
suffering.

Instead of dreaming up ways of avoiding these newly-introduced
hazards, why not just see sense and get rid of the bluddy things?

They are constantly parking across junctions and crossings. If their
drivers followed the highway code (which of course they don't) they
would only ever start moving through a junction or crossing if there
was a full bendy bus length of space available beyond. A regular bus
or three cars might have been able to move on, but a bendy bus
shouldn't.

So the choice is to park across junctions and pedestrian crossings,
causing a hazard, or to sit there until there is enough space beyond,
causing congestion.

They are causing problems. We all know it. Let's get rid of them.
They can be sold of for use as airport transit or for cities where
there are nothing but wide boulevards.

On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 15:27:41 -0700, MIG
wrote:

Bendy buses are a silly idea for a city like London. Everyone knows
it and, in real life, pedestrians and cyclists and possibly others are
suffering.

Bendy buses - and in some cases 16m rigid buses with steering rear
axles - are not a problem in many European cities. The problem is in
those driving them, but equally in those road users around them not
taking their length into account.

They are a sensible solution for high-loading, short-distance feeder
routes like the Red Arrows and the Oxford Street heavily-loaded
services.

They are constantly parking across junctions and crossings. If their
drivers followed the highway code (which of course they don't) they
would only ever start moving through a junction or crossing if there
was a full bendy bus length of space available beyond. A regular bus
or three cars might have been able to move on, but a bendy bus
shouldn't.

Correct. So, clearly, more driver training (or, if appropriate,
enforcement) is required, as are certain minor modifications to the
road infrastructure to allow them to operate safely.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.