On Jun 17, 12:44 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:27:03 -0000, XmaX wrote:
On Jun 17, 11:14 am, Mr Thant
wrote:
On Jun 17, 11:37 am, XmaX wrote:

Hi, I often travel from Z2 to Z4 via Z1. Can I buy a Z234 travelcard,
or do I need a Z1234? I assume that it might be fare evasion if I use
it, but will it let me through the gates?

A paper Travelcard will, but an Oyster card will count the journey as
via Z1 and charge you an excess (usually - if there's a sensible route
not via Z1 it may assume you've gone that way).
But then, I can't buy a 7 day paper travelcard, can I?

Yes you can - at a National Rail station that is not equipped for Oyster
tickets and there are literally hundreds of those.

Besides, how
does the system know which route is sensible?

Someone has defined that in the commercial rules. All systems like this
have to have them or else anarchy rules. Under the pre Oyster system
certain single tickets on LU had implied routeing in order to derive the
fare. We still have issues today for certain journeys like Stratford -
Richmond or Highbury - Richmond where there are three rail route options
and 3 or 4 different fares.

I know that in some
cases it is impossibe to travel between certain stations without
touching Z1, but sometimes you can indeed do it by using another,
longer route. The system doesn't know which route you travel, so does
it assume the shortest one or just looks at the zones you enter or
exit?

The system will apply the commercial rules it has been given.

You *seem* to be asking for permission to travel via Zone 1 but not pay
for it. Either pay the money up front for a Travelcard including Z1, or
get charged via PAYG on Oyster, or travel not via Z1 or else cheat the
system and run the risk of being caught for fare evasion and face
potential prosecution.

If I was to guess how you made your journeys I would say District Line
direct or else District and Central Lines. Am I right or am I right?

--
Paul C

Admits to working for London Underground!

Yes I am using mostly Central and District lines, DLR sometimes. And
basically, you are right that I am trying to go through Z1 without
paying for it, and I agree that it is not right thing to do. But then,
what are the chances of being caught? Do they even check the tickets
in the Underground (I know they do in DLR, but then it's within Z23)?

If you can buy a paper travelcard, what is the advantage of using
Oyster then? They cost the same, don't they? So what's the difference?
By the way, can you buy it in the DLR ticket machine?

On Jun 17, 3:08 pm, XmaX wrote:
On Jun 17, 12:44 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:





On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:27:03 -0000, XmaX wrote:
On Jun 17, 11:14 am, Mr Thant
wrote:
On Jun 17, 11:37 am, XmaX wrote:

Hi, I often travel from Z2 to Z4 via Z1. Can I buy a Z234 travelcard,
or do I need a Z1234? I assume that it might be fare evasion if I use
it, but will it let me through the gates?

A paper Travelcard will, but an Oyster card will count the journey as
via Z1 and charge you an excess (usually - if there's a sensible route
not via Z1 it may assume you've gone that way).
But then, I can't buy a 7 day paper travelcard, can I?

Yes you can - at a National Rail station that is not equipped for Oyster
tickets and there are literally hundreds of those.

Besides, how
does the system know which route is sensible?

Someone has defined that in the commercial rules. All systems like this
have to have them or else anarchy rules. Under the pre Oyster system
certain single tickets on LU had implied routeing in order to derive the
fare. We still have issues today for certain journeys like Stratford -
Richmond or Highbury - Richmond where there are three rail route options
and 3 or 4 different fares.

I know that in some
cases it is impossibe to travel between certain stations without
touching Z1, but sometimes you can indeed do it by using another,
longer route. The system doesn't know which route you travel, so does
it assume the shortest one or just looks at the zones you enter or
exit?

The system will apply the commercial rules it has been given.

You *seem* to be asking for permission to travel via Zone 1 but not pay
for it. Either pay the money up front for a Travelcard including Z1, or
get charged via PAYG on Oyster, or travel not via Z1 or else cheat the
system and run the risk of being caught for fare evasion and face
potential prosecution.

If I was to guess how you made your journeys I would say District Line
direct or else District and Central Lines. Am I right or am I right?

--
Paul C

Admits to working for London Underground!

Yes I am using mostly Central and District lines, DLR sometimes. And
basically, you are right that I am trying to go through Z1 without
paying for it, and I agree that it is not right thing to do. But then,
what are the chances of being caught? Do they even check the tickets
in the Underground (I know they do in DLR, but then it's within Z23)?

If you can buy a paper travelcard, what is the advantage of using
Oyster then? They cost the same, don't they? So what's the difference?
By the way, can you buy it in the DLR ticket machine?



The difference seems to be that if you have a zone 2, 3, 4 travelcard
on Oyster and (be assumed to) go through zone 1 you'll be charged
£1.50 from your PAYG balance.

If you have a zone 2, 3, 4 paper travelcard, you have three choices.

1) avoid paying
2) pay a £4 extension for the zone 1 part of the journey
3) get off twice during the journey, go to the gateline and back and
wait for another train, so that you can touch in and out and pay £1.50
on your (separate) Oyster.

Quite what the situation is if there is no boundary 1/2 station I
don't know.

That is, with a 2, 3, 4 paper travelcard, can you travel into zone 1
purely to touch in with your Oyster at the first stop, or do you have
to get off while still in zone 2 and then pay £2 for a zone 1/2
journey?

I think you can get a seven-day travelcard from DLR machines, but not
certain now. Everything the DLR sells is paper.

On Jun 17, 4:47 pm, MIG wrote:
On Jun 17, 3:08 pm, XmaX wrote:



On Jun 17, 12:44 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:27:03 -0000, XmaX wrote:
On Jun 17, 11:14 am, Mr Thant
wrote:
On Jun 17, 11:37 am, XmaX wrote:

Hi, I often travel from Z2 to Z4 via Z1. Can I buy a Z234 travelcard,
or do I need a Z1234? I assume that it might be fare evasion if I use
it, but will it let me through the gates?

A paper Travelcard will, but an Oyster card will count the journey as
via Z1 and charge you an excess (usually - if there's a sensible route
not via Z1 it may assume you've gone that way).
But then, I can't buy a 7 day paper travelcard, can I?

Yes you can - at a National Rail station that is not equipped for Oyster
tickets and there are literally hundreds of those.

Besides, how
does the system know which route is sensible?

Someone has defined that in the commercial rules. All systems like this
have to have them or else anarchy rules. Under the pre Oyster system
certain single tickets on LU had implied routeing in order to derive the
fare. We still have issues today for certain journeys like Stratford -
Richmond or Highbury - Richmond where there are three rail route options
and 3 or 4 different fares.

I know that in some
cases it is impossibe to travel between certain stations without
touching Z1, but sometimes you can indeed do it by using another,
longer route. The system doesn't know which route you travel, so does
it assume the shortest one or just looks at the zones you enter or
exit?

The system will apply the commercial rules it has been given.

You *seem* to be asking for permission to travel via Zone 1 but not pay
for it. Either pay the money up front for a Travelcard including Z1, or
get charged via PAYG on Oyster, or travel not via Z1 or else cheat the
system and run the risk of being caught for fare evasion and face
potential prosecution.

If I was to guess how you made your journeys I would say District Line
direct or else District and Central Lines. Am I right or am I right?

--
Paul C

Admits to working for London Underground!

Yes I am using mostly Central and District lines, DLR sometimes. And
basically, you are right that I am trying to go through Z1 without
paying for it, and I agree that it is not right thing to do. But then,
what are the chances of being caught? Do they even check the tickets
in the Underground (I know they do in DLR, but then it's within Z23)?

If you can buy a paper travelcard, what is the advantage of using
Oyster then? They cost the same, don't they? So what's the difference?
By the way, can you buy it in the DLR ticket machine?

The difference seems to be that if you have a zone 2, 3, 4 travelcard
on Oyster and (be assumed to) go through zone 1 you'll be charged
£1.50 from your PAYG balance.

If you have a zone 2, 3, 4 paper travelcard, you have three choices.

1) avoid paying
2) pay a £4 extension for the zone 1 part of the journey
3) get off twice during the journey, go to the gateline and back and
wait for another train, so that you can touch in and out and pay £1.50
on your (separate) Oyster.

Quite what the situation is if there is no boundary 1/2 station I
don't know.

That is, with a 2, 3, 4 paper travelcard, can you travel into zone 1
purely to touch in with your Oyster at the first stop, or do you have
to get off while still in zone 2 and then pay £2 for a zone 1/2
journey?

I think you can get a seven-day travelcard from DLR machines, but not
certain now. Everything the DLR sells is paper.

OK, great. So in other words, I can indeed travel via Z1 with Z234
paper travelcard, yes? I understand that I could be in trouble if
someone catches me, but how can that happen? In DLR, there are
inspectors, but it's all Z23, so it's OK. Buses - no zones, so OK.
Underground - wrong zones, but who checks the tickets apart from the
gates, which wouldn't do anything anyway?

I am pretty sure that DLR machines sell some kind of travelcards, but
the DLR is within Z23, so I suppose it only sells within these zones.

On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 09:52:30 -0700, XmaX wrote:

On Jun 17, 4:47 pm, MIG wrote:
On Jun 17, 3:08 pm, XmaX wrote:
On Jun 17, 12:44 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

If I was to guess how you made your journeys I would say District Line
direct or else District and Central Lines. Am I right or am I right?

Yes I am using mostly Central and District lines, DLR sometimes. And
basically, you are right that I am trying to go through Z1 without
paying for it, and I agree that it is not right thing to do. But then,
what are the chances of being caught? Do they even check the tickets
in the Underground (I know they do in DLR, but then it's within Z23)?

If you can buy a paper travelcard, what is the advantage of using
Oyster then? They cost the same, don't they? So what's the difference?
By the way, can you buy it in the DLR ticket machine?

The difference seems to be that if you have a zone 2, 3, 4 travelcard
on Oyster and (be assumed to) go through zone 1 you'll be charged
£1.50 from your PAYG balance.

If you have a zone 2, 3, 4 paper travelcard, you have three choices.

1) avoid paying
2) pay a £4 extension for the zone 1 part of the journey
3) get off twice during the journey, go to the gateline and back and
wait for another train, so that you can touch in and out and pay £1.50
on your (separate) Oyster.

Quite what the situation is if there is no boundary 1/2 station I
don't know.

That is, with a 2, 3, 4 paper travelcard, can you travel into zone 1
purely to touch in with your Oyster at the first stop, or do you have
to get off while still in zone 2 and then pay £2 for a zone 1/2
journey?

I think you can get a seven-day travelcard from DLR machines, but not
certain now. Everything the DLR sells is paper.

OK, great. So in other words, I can indeed travel via Z1 with Z234
paper travelcard, yes? I understand that I could be in trouble if
someone catches me, but how can that happen? In DLR, there are
inspectors, but it's all Z23, so it's OK. Buses - no zones, so OK.
Underground - wrong zones, but who checks the tickets apart from the
gates, which wouldn't do anything anyway?

I am pretty sure that DLR machines sell some kind of travelcards, but
the DLR is within Z23, so I suppose it only sells within these zones.

So Bank and Tower Gateway stations have moved out of Zone 1 have they?
DLR covers Zones 1-3 over its network.

I think you really need to consider that ticket inspections are
undertaken on trains and on interchange routes for DLR and for LU. If
you are caught then you may be at risk of prosecution rather than being
levied a penalty fare.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 09:52:30 -0700, XmaX wrote:

OK, great. So in other words, I can indeed travel via Z1 with Z234
paper travelcard, yes? I understand that I could be in trouble if
someone catches me, but how can that happen? In DLR, there are
inspectors, but it's all Z23, so it's OK. Buses - no zones, so OK.
Underground - wrong zones, but who checks the tickets apart from the
gates, which wouldn't do anything anyway?

There are random checks by staff, more so in station passageways at
interchanges than on trains, although the latter do happen
occasionally.

I wouldn't recommend chancing it, to be honest. The difference between
the 7-day Z1-4 and 7-day Z2-4 is less than one penalty fare. Also,
with the proliferation of Oyster, if caught by an inspector in Z1 with
a Z2-4 paper Travelcard, the inspector may be minded to believe that
you chose paper over Oyster in order to evade the Z1 fare, which would
lead to prosecution, not penalty fare.

OK, great. So in other words, I can indeed travel via Z1 with Z234
paper travelcard, yes? I understand that I could be in trouble if
someone catches me, but how can that happen? In DLR, there are
inspectors, but it's all Z23, so it's OK.

I've been checked a couple of times on a DLR train, by (I assume) the
controller-person.

In message . com, XmaX
writes

OK, great. So in other words, I can indeed travel via Z1 with Z234
paper travelcard, yes? I understand that I could be in trouble if
someone catches me, but how can that happen? In DLR, there are
inspectors, but it's all Z23, so it's OK. Buses - no zones, so OK.
Underground - wrong zones, but who checks the tickets apart from the
gates, which wouldn't do anything anyway?

I regularly see Ticket Inspectors working on the (Underground) trains I
drive.

You attempt to avoid the correct fare at your own risk, but don't come
crying on here if you get caught - you won't get a lot of sympathy!
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

I regularly see Ticket Inspectors working on the (Underground) trains I
drive.

You attempt to avoid the correct fare at your own risk, but don't come
crying on here if you get caught - you won't get a lot of sympathy!

I didn't say that I am definitely doing it, I just asked for some
advice whether it works and how risky is it. I travel in the Tube for
2 months and never saw a ticket inspector, so I assumed there aren't
many of them. Or It probably means that I am lucky

It's not really worth getting a Z1234 travelcard, as I spend roughly 5
a day for 5 days, which gives me 25 pounds, nearly 10 less than a
Z1234 travelcard, but 6 more than Z234, not to mention that I have
bigger flexibility.

Also, I just checked - there are no travelcards in DLR ticket machines
(or at least in Bow Church) - only one day travelcards, nothing more
than that.

In message .com, XmaX
writes

I didn't say that I am definitely doing it, I just asked for some
advice whether it works and how risky is it. I travel in the Tube for
2 months and never saw a ticket inspector, so I assumed there aren't
many of them. Or It probably means that I am lucky

It's nothing to do with being 'lucky' as you put it - it's you
(apparently, seriously) considering making a positive decision to steal
from/defraud the rest of the fare paying passengers.

It's not really worth getting a Z1234 travelcard, as I spend roughly 5
a day for 5 days, which gives me 25 pounds, nearly 10 less than a
Z1234 travelcard, but 6 more than Z234, not to mention that I have
bigger flexibility.

It's worth the correct fare for the journey. You are offered to be
carried at a rate. If you think that rate is not appropriate, don't use
it - just make your own, alternative arrangements. Don't expect anyone
on here to 'approve' your attempted avoidance tactics of the correct
fare to be paid.

By all means consider the legitimate (Oyster pre-pay perhaps) options to
pay less, but as I said earlier, don't come crying to us if you attempt
to defraud and you then get caught out (as others have done recently).

Also, I just checked - there are no travelcards in DLR ticket machines
(or at least in Bow Church) - only one day travelcards, nothing more
than that.

And advertising the fact on here that you are considering avoiding
paying the correct fare is hardly a good move either.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

It's nothing to do with being 'lucky' as you put it - it's you
(apparently, seriously) considering making a positive decision to steal
from/defraud the rest of the fare paying passengers.

I am not saying I am lucky that I don't get caught (as I have never
evaded fares), I just said that I never saw the ticket inspector
inside the train, which possibly makes me a minority.


It's not really worth getting a Z1234 travelcard, as I spend roughly 5
a day for 5 days, which gives me 25 pounds, nearly 10 less than a
Z1234 travelcard, but 6 more than Z234, not to mention that I have
bigger flexibility.

It's worth the correct fare for the journey. You are offered to be
carried at a rate. If you think that rate is not appropriate, don't use
it - just make your own, alternative arrangements. Don't expect anyone
on here to 'approve' your attempted avoidance tactics of the correct
fare to be paid.

By all means consider the legitimate (Oyster pre-pay perhaps) options to
pay less, but as I said earlier, don't come crying to us if you attempt
to defraud and you then get caught out (as others have done recently).

I am using Oyster pre-pay, but a paper travelcard would be better. I
don't say I am going to use it, and certainly wouldn't cry to you if I
get caght, as I know it would be my fault (and that's my risk I might
take).


Also, I just checked - there are no travelcards in DLR ticket machines
(or at least in Bow Church) - only one day travelcards, nothing more
than that.

And advertising the fact on here that you are considering avoiding
paying the correct fare is hardly a good move either.

I am not the first to do that, and nobody was heavily criticized for
similar behaviour. And just a question - what does it have to do with
DLR ticket machines (I suppose you quoted incorrectly)