I thought there was some clever system to avoid double charging peeps
whose bus was pulled out from under them en route? Last Friday my
journey on a 220 was cut short, caught another 10 mins later. Journey
history shows

06/07/07 19:30 Entry £1.00 £10.60
19:07 Entry £1.00 £11.60

Before I call up for a refund, is this a situation where drivers don't
program the reader properly? Not that buses should cut short in my not
so humble opinion - this seems to be a particularly nasty London
disease.

--
Old anti-spam address cmylod at despammed dot com appears broke
So back to cmylod at bigfoot dot com

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:45:59 +0100, Colum Mylod
wrote:

I thought there was some clever system to avoid double charging peeps
whose bus was pulled out from under them en route? Last Friday my
journey on a 220 was cut short, caught another 10 mins later. Journey
history shows

06/07/07 19:30 Entry £1.00 £10.60
19:07 Entry £1.00 £11.60

Before I call up for a refund, is this a situation where drivers don't
program the reader properly? Not that buses should cut short in my not
so humble opinion - this seems to be a particularly nasty London
disease.

Was the bus already on a short trip when you boarded or were you
curtailed once you had got on? If the latter then the driver should
have waited to transfer you to the next bus or presented you with a
transfer ticket. There is no electronic set up that would mean the
second bus's reader would not deduct from your PAYG as you boarded. When
I have been chucked off a short turned 24 the inspector made sure we
were all escorted on to the bus behind with a very clear message of "do
not revalidate your Oyster card". I would challenge the second
deduction as the driver should not have dumped you at the roadside if
you were curtailed after you boarded. If the bus was already running
short when you got on then I'm afraid it's tough luck as short turns do
happen and people should really look where the bus is headed.

Only the LU system (as it is connected to the central system) can have
instructions sent to it to alias other stations or ensure that if there
is an emergency that means people have to exit the station can continue
by bus with no charge. Not sure if DLR is the same or not.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:45:59 +0100, Colum Mylod
wrote:

Before I call up for a refund, is this a situation where drivers don't
program the reader properly? Not that buses should cut short in my not
so humble opinion - this seems to be a particularly nasty London
disease.

I think it's sensible so long as an alternative will be along soon.
If London would do the sensible thing and make transfers free on all
buses (i.e. if you touch in on a bus, then touch in on another within
an hour, the second one is free) it wouldn't even be an issue from a
ticketing perspective, and would stop penalising people that are
already suffering due to the lack of a direct service.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Jul 9, 8:16 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
Only the LU system (as it is connected to the central system) can have
instructions sent to it to alias other stations or ensure that if there
is an emergency that means people have to exit the station can continue
by bus with no charge. Not sure if DLR is the same or not.

Never seen that in real life, and the half hour of hastle on the line
to the oyster "help"line isn't worth claiming back the £1. Just a
hastle of oyster.

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 20:16:17 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:45:59 +0100, Colum Mylod
wrote:

I thought there was some clever system to avoid double charging peeps
whose bus was pulled out from under them en route? Last Friday my
journey on a 220 was cut short, caught another 10 mins later. Journey
history shows

06/07/07 19:30 Entry £1.00 £10.60
19:07 Entry £1.00 £11.60
....
Was the bus already on a short trip when you boarded or were you
curtailed once you had got on? If the latter then the driver should
have waited to transfer you to the next bus or presented you with a
transfer ticket...

I hopped on in Hammersmith in a rush and didn't see the front of the
bus. The driver made no mention there & then of curtailment. At the
next stop he told people it was going 2 more stops. He was apparently
already running late and chucked out before Shepherd's Bush (an odd
place as normally they do that on Wood Lane). As he did, a 220 in
front was just leaving the stop so it was a real sod job of timing.
Waited 10 mins for a follow on 220. No-one got any chits or any comms
to help with continuing. Some mutterings and shaking heads at the bus
stop - such being how civilised people complain before they abandon
buses.

It looked to me the guy was new, green behind the ears, and had been
badly held up on his way north. Way beyond legit driving time?

In fact I think this whole run-short shows a major deficiency in the
bus ticketing that is catered for in other countries: if I need one
bus I pay £1 from prepaid. If I need 2, I pay £2. There should be a
route-based system as bus changing is not normally a pleasure
activity, and it would cater for buses breaking down or going out of
service. I'd like to refer to the NL Strippenkaart system but of
course they're trying to wipe that out and go OV-kaart which for buses
could mean an Oyster situation for bus changes.

Anyway tomorrow morn I'll bother the Oyster line to see what they say.
The journey history of 2x220 boardings at 19:07 & 19:30 should be able
to speak for themselves...
--
Old anti-spam address cmylod at despammed dot com appears broke
So back to cmylod at bigfoot dot com

Colum Mylod wrote

I thought there was some clever system to avoid double charging peeps
whose bus was pulled out from under them en route? Last Friday my
journey on a 220 was cut short, caught another 10 mins later. Journey
history shows

06/07/07 19:30 Entry £1.00 £10.60
19:07 Entry £1.00 £11.60

Before I call up for a refund, is this a situation where drivers
don't
program the reader properly? Not that buses should cut short in my
not
so humble opinion - this seems to be a particularly nasty London
disease.

I and others theorised that there was such a system after a possible
report but (given capping) no one reported unambiguous data.

Your example draws attention to the additional factor of travel time on
the first, turned short bus after touching in. ie the programming
couldn't use the time between being turfed off and touching in again.
Hence your 23 minutes for a 10 minute wait.

If Oyster refuses you a formal written complaint would be in order.

--
Mike D

On 9 Jul, 17:45, Colum Mylod wrote:
so humble opinion - this seems to be a particularly nasty London
disease.

People keep posting messages like this. I'll say this once - TFL don't
care. Once they've got your money you can go hang for all they care.
Oyster cards are to make their lives more convenient , NOT ours. Don't
fall for brainwashing spin about them.

B2003

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:45:59 +0100, Colum Mylod
wrote:

Before I call up for a refund, is this a situation where drivers don't
program the reader properly? Not that buses should cut short in my not
so humble opinion - this seems to be a particularly nasty London
disease.

I think it's sensible so long as an alternative will be along soon.
If London would do the sensible thing and make transfers free on all
buses (i.e. if you touch in on a bus, then touch in on another within
an hour, the second one is free) it wouldn't even be an issue from a
ticketing perspective, and would stop penalising people that are
already suffering due to the lack of a direct service.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.


If you transfer on the Tram you don't get double charged. In fact I used to
escort my grandson to school from Elmers End to Mitcham and coming straight
back meant I only paid for a single!

So clearly the technology is available.

MaxB

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:08:31 +0100, "MaxB"
wrote:

So clearly the technology is available.

Of course it is - the far older Singapore system offers a discount for
bus transfers. From what you say, though, it would just be a matter
of switching it on for buses.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

If you transfer on the Tram you don't get double charged.

That isn't quite the whole story. It only happens because a second tram or
feeder bus journey within seventy minutes of the first validation is free.
If you are already on the second journey and the tram is cut short then you
are charged when you touch in again on the tramstop (as you are required
to).

In fact I used to escort my grandson to school from Elmers End to Mitcham
and coming straight back meant I only paid for a single!

However if one of those tram journeys had been cut short you would have been
charged for another journey when you touched in again when you are really
entitled to another free journey.

I think that you should be allowed unlimited tram journeys within the
seventy minutes and not just two as it would solve the problem of trams
going out of service at a stroke.

So clearly the technology is available.

Indeed and it should be implemented a lot wider.

It doesn't seem quite fair that the T31, T32, T33, 130 and 314 buses are
given a privileged status when it comes to combining journeys with the trams
when plenty of other bus routes are used to connect with the trams, and
indeed they can be carrying passengers from a lot further away from the tram
stops than those in the New Addington area. There really ought to be a roll
out to every single bus route serving tram stops for starters.