Right,

All that stuff about maps got me thinking. It should be possible to colour
in the lines on the London Connections map to show which termini trains
run to. Since i'm a dab hand with the Gimp, i thought i'd give it a go
myself. Here's the first draft, which so far only has the Paddington lines
done:

http://urchin.earth.li/~twic/tmp/Lon...(Coloured).png

Apologies for the weird look; i had to rasterise the PDF to edit it, and
it's come out funny (blame Ghostscript!).

The reason i'm posting it with one line done (well, two, as i'm planning
to do Thameslink in black!) is to ask: does this look completely rubbish
or what? I think colouring in the edges of the quite thin NR lines isn't
visually strong enough. Am i wasting my time doing it like this? An
alternative route would be to dig out Illustrator and see if i can make
the lines a bit thicker.

For those who care, i'm picking colours by associating each terminus with
a tube line, based on the area served, and copying its colour. I'm
currently thinking:

Paddington - H&C
Marylebone - Metropolitan
Euston - Bakerloo
St Pancras - Northern (Thameslink is like the Northern line of railways)
King's Cross - Piccadilly
Moorgate - as King's Cross
Liverpool Street - Central
Fenchurch Street - Jubilee
London Bridge - East London
Cannon Street - as London Bridge
Blackfriars - Northern (as St Pancras)
Charing Cross - as London Bridge
Waterloo - District
Victoria - Victoria (hey, it's a link!)
orbital lines - Circle

I'm not totally convinced about Fenchurch Street and London Bridge, or the
orbital lines.

tom

--
Plus, you gotta understand I can now type far, far faster than I can
think. This is not boasting - its admitting a personal tragedy. -- D

On Jul 10, 10:52 am, Tom Anderson wrote:
Right,

All that stuff about maps got me thinking. It should be possible to colour
in the lines on the London Connections map to show which termini trains
run to. Since i'm a dab hand with the Gimp, i thought i'd give it a go
myself. Here's the first draft, which so far only has the Paddington lines
done:

http://urchin.earth.li/~twic/tmp/Lon...(Coloured).png

Apologies for the weird look; i had to rasterise the PDF to edit it, and
it's come out funny (blame Ghostscript!).

The reason i'm posting it with one line done (well, two, as i'm planning
to do Thameslink in black!) is to ask: does this look completely rubbish
or what? I think colouring in the edges of the quite thin NR lines isn't
visually strong enough. Am i wasting my time doing it like this? An
alternative route would be to dig out Illustrator and see if i can make
the lines a bit thicker.

For those who care, i'm picking colours by associating each terminus with
a tube line, based on the area served, and copying its colour. I'm
currently thinking:

Paddington - H&C
Marylebone - Metropolitan
Euston - Bakerloo
St Pancras - Northern (Thameslink is like the Northern line of railways)
King's Cross - Piccadilly
Moorgate - as King's Cross
Liverpool Street - Central
Fenchurch Street - Jubilee
London Bridge - East London
Cannon Street - as London Bridge
Blackfriars - Northern (as St Pancras)
Charing Cross - as London Bridge
Waterloo - District
Victoria - Victoria (hey, it's a link!)
orbital lines - Circle

I'm not totally convinced about Fenchurch Street and London Bridge, or the
orbital lines.

tom


This is actually based on the zones map, which doesn't attempt to
diagram the routes, it simply shows which stations the zones are in
and some rather bizarre routes between them (like the weird branch to
Hither Green between Lewisham and Blackheath).

There is a London Connections map which would be a more useful
starting point and includes the zones as well.

The diagram that's been given out with the National Rail timetable for
years always had a kind of attempt at colouring routes according to
terminus, but the trouble is that it can result in having to have
parallel lines along certain routes, or else sillinesses like having a
colour for Charing Cross/Cannon Street and then saying that the route
from Dartford to Victoria is really covered by Charing Cross services
that go to Victoria, rather than have two colours along the
Bexleyheath line.

In the end, the grouping of services by TOC (or former BR division) is
more likely to correspond to some kind of operational reality without
creating incredible complication.

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007, MIG wrote:

On Jul 10, 10:52 am, Tom Anderson wrote:

All that stuff about maps got me thinking. It should be possible to colour
in the lines on the London Connections map to show which termini trains
run to. Since i'm a dab hand with the Gimp, i thought i'd give it a go
myself. Here's the first draft, which so far only has the Paddington lines
done:

http://urchin.earth.li/~twic/tmp/Lon...(Coloured).png

This is actually based on the zones map, which doesn't attempt to
diagram the routes, it simply shows which stations the zones are in and
some rather bizarre routes between them (like the weird branch to Hither
Green between Lewisham and Blackheath).

True, but that's more or less what the tube map does too, so i'm not
overly bothered.

There is a London Connections map which would be a more useful starting
point and includes the zones as well.

Is there? Distinct from this map? Do you mean the NR one? If not, what?

The diagram that's been given out with the National Rail timetable for
years always had a kind of attempt at colouring routes according to
terminus,

This one:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system...onnections.pdf

?

I note that has the same treatment of Hither Green.

but the trouble is that it can result in having to have
parallel lines along certain routes,

Yes, this is inevitable, as with the LU network - you get just this all
around the Circle, out beyond Rayner's Lane, out to Barking, etc, but
nobody seems to have trouble with it. It's a bit worse on NR, but not
colossally so. If you look at the NR map above, no route is more than
three lines wide, except at London Bridge where it's arguably gratuitous.

or else sillinesses like having a colour for Charing Cross/Cannon Street
and then saying that the route from Dartford to Victoria is really
covered by Charing Cross services that go to Victoria, rather than have
two colours along the Bexleyheath line.

This is bad, wrong, and i will not be doing it.

In the end, the grouping of services by TOC (or former BR division) is
more likely to correspond to some kind of operational reality without
creating incredible complication.

No, colouring by terminus is fine, as i will soon demonstrate!

tom

--
3.141592666666 and then it's just all sixes for the other 298 digits. Then
after that there's just hieroglyphs of scary eyes.

On Jul 10, 2:37 pm, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007, MIG wrote:
On Jul 10, 10:52 am, Tom Anderson wrote:

All that stuff about maps got me thinking. It should be possible to colour
in the lines on the London Connections map to show which termini trains
run to. Since i'm a dab hand with the Gimp, i thought i'd give it a go
myself. Here's the first draft, which so far only has the Paddington lines
done:

http://urchin.earth.li/~twic/tmp/Lon...(Coloured).png

This is actually based on the zones map, which doesn't attempt to
diagram the routes, it simply shows which stations the zones are in and
some rather bizarre routes between them (like the weird branch to Hither
Green between Lewisham and Blackheath).

True, but that's more or less what the tube map does too, so i'm not
overly bothered.

There is a London Connections map which would be a more useful starting
point and includes the zones as well.

Is there? Distinct from this map? Do you mean the NR one? If not, what?

The diagram that's been given out with the National Rail timetable for
years always had a kind of attempt at colouring routes according to
terminus,

This one:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system.../print_maps/Lo...


That's the one. It's not quite accurate around that area, but in
general it's more accurate (or less inaccurate) than the zones one.
It's not the same though, in that at least it doesn't show everything
going through Lewisham (station). It's a bit better on limited
service routes as well. Also, with most operators, the colours do
correspond to one terminus (I assume you wouldn't try to distinguish
Charing Cross from Cannon Street.)



?

I note that has the same treatment of Hither Green.

but the trouble is that it can result in having to have
parallel lines along certain routes,

Yes, this is inevitable, as with the LU network - you get just this all
around the Circle, out beyond Rayner's Lane, out to Barking, etc, but
nobody seems to have trouble with it. It's a bit worse on NR, but not
colossally so. If you look at the NR map above, no route is more than
three lines wide, except at London Bridge where it's arguably gratuitous.

or else sillinesses like having a colour for Charing Cross/Cannon Street
and then saying that the route from Dartford to Victoria is really
covered by Charing Cross services that go to Victoria, rather than have
two colours along the Bexleyheath line.

This is bad, wrong, and i will not be doing it.

It's not the most awful thing about that map that comes (came) with
the timetable. I can't find it on the Web.



In the end, the grouping of services by TOC (or former BR division) is
more likely to correspond to some kind of operational reality without
creating incredible complication.

No, colouring by terminus is fine, as i will soon demonstrate!

tom

--
3.141592666666 and then it's just all sixes for the other 298 digits. Then
after that there's just hieroglyphs of scary eyes.

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 07:11:08 -0700, MIG wrote:

or else sillinesses like having a colour for Charing Cross/Cannon Street
and then saying that the route from Dartford to Victoria is really
covered by Charing Cross services that go to Victoria, rather than have
two colours along the Bexleyheath line.

This is bad, wrong, and i will not be doing it.

It's not the most awful thing about that map that comes (came) with
the timetable. I can't find it on the Web.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%...atic%20map.pdf

On Jul 10, 5:45 pm, asdf wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 07:11:08 -0700, MIG wrote:
or else sillinesses like having a colour for Charing Cross/Cannon Street
and then saying that the route from Dartford to Victoria is really
covered by Charing Cross services that go to Victoria, rather than have
two colours along the Bexleyheath line.

This is bad, wrong, and i will not be doing it.

It's not the most awful thing about that map that comes (came) with
the timetable. I can't find it on the Web.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%...lesMay07/Schem...


The very monstrosity I was thinking of; thanks.

or else sillinesses like having a colour for Charing Cross/Cannon Street
and then saying that the route from Dartford to Victoria is really
covered by Charing Cross services that go to Victoria, rather than have
two colours along the Bexleyheath line.

This is bad, wrong, and i will not be doing it.

In the end, the grouping of services by TOC (or former BR division) is
more likely to correspond to some kind of operational reality without
creating incredible complication.

No, colouring by terminus is fine, as i will soon demonstrate!


In a similar vein, in reality, some London Bridge services do extend
to Charing Cross and they come from the same places and are run by the
same operator that is the main user of the London Bridge terminus.

Would you be completely pure about it and consider them to be Charing
Cross services, and have three parallel colours down a relatively
minor branch like Caterham?

Also (did someone already ask?) what colour will you use when trains
travel from one terminus to another, eg London Bridge to Victoria by a
number of different routes at various times, currently two main ones?

I admire your determination, but this is going to be a very difficult
task.

On Jul 10, 7:18 pm, MIG wrote:
Would you be completely pure about it and consider them to be Charing
Cross services, and have three parallel colours down a relatively
minor branch like Caterham?

All services to/through London Bridge should be the same colour, since
it's easy enough to change there.

Also (did someone already ask?) what colour will you use when trains
travel from one terminus to another, eg London Bridge to Victoria by a
number of different routes at various times, currently two main ones?

The SR one I posted yesterday has parallel lines in both colours.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007, Mr Thant wrote:

On Jul 10, 7:18 pm, MIG wrote:

Would you be completely pure about it and consider them to be Charing
Cross services, and have three parallel colours down a relatively minor
branch like Caterham?

All services to/through London Bridge should be the same colour, since
it's easy enough to change there.

Yes. I mentioned that in passing in my list. King's Cross and Moorgate
lines will also be the same colour.

Also (did someone already ask?) what colour will you use when trains
travel from one terminus to another, eg London Bridge to Victoria by a
number of different routes at various times, currently two main ones?

The SR one I posted yesterday has parallel lines in both colours.

Hmm. Don't think i like that; it implies there are two services on the
line, one going to each terminus, when really, there's only one service,
that goes to both. My immediate reaction is to treat such services as
orbital, and colour them the same as the NLL etc; whether this is right
depends on how they're used, really. Another option would be to use a line
of alternating colour, as on the old Railway Clearing House maps, eg:

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/cj.tolley/rjd/rjd-040.htm

However, then we're back to looking vile.

tom

--
Come on thunder; come on thunder.

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
.li...
Right,

All that stuff about maps got me thinking. It should be possible to colour
in the lines on the London Connections map to show which termini trains
run to. Since i'm a dab hand with the Gimp, i thought i'd give it a go
myself. Here's the first draft, which so far only has the Paddington lines
done:


Why don't you have a look at the NR London Connections map, it has thicker
NR lines and they are already in colour - I reckon your problem really only
applies to Southern and Southeastern doesn't it?
http://nationalrail.co.uk/system/gal...onnections.pdf

Paul