In message , Paul Terry
writes
In message , Ian Jelf
writes

However, visits usually involve an element of "disappointment because:

(snip)

And also perhaps because it is now no longer normally possible to walk
among the stones - you have to admire them from a distance.

Interestingly, last time I was there with a group, a few people in the
party remarked to me how much *better* that made it as an experience, as
it made photography easier.

For the record, you're not kept that far away from the stones, either.

It's also possible to arrange visits within the stones "after hours", at
least for private parties.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

In message
,
Mizter T writes
Perhaps quite unjustifiably, I have this notion that many tourists
wouldn't be keen on venturing out to do this.

And as far as mass tourism from overseas (and indeed the UK) you'd be
quite right about this.

I am sometimes saddened by people's lack of enthusiasm for seeing things
such as landscapes "on the way somewhere". It's like people have a
"tick list" of Places (deliberate capital letter there) they have to see
and the landscape en route is a pain in the backside because it means we
can't Be There immediately.


But a day's trip for a walk the Chilterns, the North Downs or even the
White Cliffs are all very doable.

I've seen a visit to see the White Cliffs included as part of a day trip
from London to Canterbury & Leeds Castle (yes, really). The others
wouldn't even be known to most visitors.

(That said, I've taken people from the Midlands and the North of England
to London and *they've* never heard of the Chilterns.......)

--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

In message , at 12:17:49 on Mon,
11 Feb 2008, Ian Jelf remarked:

Although Stonehenge is often described as "disappointing",

It is *much* smaller than most people imagine. Although that's partly
because you can't get very close to it any more (I can remember when you
could wander round inside).

there is a reason it is so famous.

It is very old. When tourists come from a *State* that's only got 100
years of history, something that old is almost literally unimaginable.

It is, as far as I am aware, absolutely unique among the stone
circles of Western Europe for having the lintels across many of the
stone uprights. This represents the absolute pinnacle of what
Neolithic to Bronze ages peoples achieved.

Very few people seem to go to Stonehenge to wonder over the
architecture. They would be better off going to Avebury, I think.

Furthermore, the story of the circle through three major phases and
innumerable "sub-=phases" is a fascinating one.

And one that is entirely over the head of 99.9% of the visitors I'm
afraid.

In short it deserves to be seen.

However, visits usually involve an element of "disappointment because:

* The site is spoiled by its proximity to two busy roads.

And maybe I've been unlucky, but I never seem to go there other than
when it's blowing a gale and everyone is freezing to death.

--
Roland Perry

In message
, at
04:52:24 on Mon, 11 Feb 2008, Mizter T remarked:
Whoops, I didn't quite make myself very clear when I said I
"absolutely agree", I was trying to say that I absolutely agree that
Stonehenge is worth a visit, rather than agreeing that it was a
disappointment.

It can be both at the same time. Many places are like that. I'd include
both John O Groats and Lands End (and the less well known "most
southerly point") in that category.

Call me a philistine, but I was very disappointed by the Colosseum in
Rome. All the tourist literature kept wittering on about it being
"bigger than you can possibly imagine", and when I got there it was
smaller than I was expecting. But it was worth seeing, just to
understand what it was all about.
--
Roland Perry

Ian Jelf (Ian Jelf ) gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

(That said, I've taken people from the Midlands ... to London and
*they've* never heard of the Chilterns.......)

Please tell me they got here on a train to Marylebone.

In message , Adrian
writes
Ian Jelf (Ian Jelf ) gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

(That said, I've taken people from the Midlands ... to London and
*they've* never heard of the Chilterns.......)

Please tell me they got here on a train to Marylebone.

Sadly not!

Virtually everyone I encounter is on a coach and I mention the Chilterns
as we pass through them. That's when I sometimes find people who've
not heard of them before.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

In message , Roland Perry
writes
In message
, at
04:52:24 on Mon, 11 Feb 2008, Mizter T remarked:
Whoops, I didn't quite make myself very clear when I said I
"absolutely agree", I was trying to say that I absolutely agree that
Stonehenge is worth a visit, rather than agreeing that it was a
disappointment.

It can be both at the same time. Many places are like that. I'd include
both John O Groats and Lands End (and the less well known "most
southerly point") in that category.

Call me a philistine, but I was very disappointed by the Colosseum in
Rome. All the tourist literature kept wittering on about it being
"bigger than you can possibly imagine", and when I got there it was
smaller than I was expecting. But it was worth seeing, just to
understand what it was all about.

Conversely, I have a friend (American but now living in Australia) who
couldn't believe how big Beg Ben [1] was when she first saw it.


[1] Yes I know but I can't think of a brief version of the proper name.
And it makes you sound pompous.

--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

In message , Roland Perry
writes
In message , at 12:17:49 on
Mon, 11 Feb 2008, Ian Jelf remarked:

Although Stonehenge is often described as "disappointing",

It is *much* smaller than most people imagine.
The circle may be. The monument is much more. And much bigger.

Although that's partly because you can't get very close to it any more
(I can remember when you could wander round inside).
In fact you do go inside the monument; just not the stone circle
itself.

there is a reason it is so famous.

It is very old.
Actually, compared to other monuments, the present stone circles isn't
especially old. The earthwork on certain other features are indeed
much older, though.

When tourists come from a *State* that's only got 100 years of
history, some
thing that old is almost literally unimaginable.
To be fair, most people come from somewhere a bit older than 100 years
(even excluding any indigenous cultures. I regularly take people to
see attraction newer than many US or even Australia features, eg
Beamish, the Black Country Living Museum, Ironbridge Gorge, etc.)

It is, as far as I am aware, absolutely unique among the stone
circles of Western Europe for having the lintels across many of the
stone uprights. This represents the absolute pinnacle of what
Neolithic to Bronze ages peoples achieved.

Very few people seem to go to Stonehenge to wonder over the
architecture.
Mine do! ;-))

They would be better off going to Avebury, I think.
Avebury is also a wonderful place and an interesting contrast.

Furthermore, the story of the circle through three major phases and
innumerable "sub-=phases" is a fascinating one.

And one that is entirely over the head of 99.9% of the visitors I'm
afraid.
But 0% of mine, I hope!

In short it deserves to be seen.

However, visits usually involve an element of "disappointment because:

* The site is spoiled by its proximity to two busy roads.

And maybe I've been unlucky, but I never seem to go there other than
when it's blowing a gale and everyone is freezing to death.
I bet it was great at dawn today.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Ian Jelf (Ian Jelf ) gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

(That said, I've taken people from the Midlands ... to London and
*they've* never heard of the Chilterns.......)

Please tell me they got here on a train to Marylebone.

Sadly not!

Virtually everyone I encounter is on a coach and I mention the Chilterns
as we pass through them.

wild guess
Just as you start to drag up the escarpment at the Chinnor junction of
the M40 - and I _bet_ you mention the Vicar of Dibley there, too.

That's when I sometimes find people who've not heard of them before.

In message , Adrian
writes
Ian Jelf (Ian Jelf ) gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

(That said, I've taken people from the Midlands ... to London and
*they've* never heard of the Chilterns.......)

Please tell me they got here on a train to Marylebone.

Sadly not!

Virtually everyone I encounter is on a coach and I mention the Chilterns
as we pass through them.

wild guess
Just as you start to drag up the escarpment at the Chinnor junction of
the M40 - and I _bet_ you mention the Vicar of Dibley there, too.

Have done! More often mention a former Nissan advert though and even
more frequently the BT tower soon coming into view on the N side.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk