On Apr 16, 3:40*pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 16 Apr, 22:51, Tom Anderson wrote:

Depending on stopping patterns. Do Thameslinks which run to Brighton stop
at West Hampstead?

Not as part of the standard pattern, where they run non-stop from St
Pancras to St Albans.

Would fast Aylesbury Chilterns stop at West Hampstead,
or would it only be the stoppers?

I think there's mostly only one stopping pattern on that line, which
is at all stops they serve.

High Wycombe to Shoreditch with one
change would require ELL trains to be running through as far as West
Hampstead, which is not currently the plan (AIUI).

Yep. Its dedicated tracks will end at H&I with only a single track
connection beyond to the westbound NLL for stock transfers, making it
operationally impossible to run any sort of service.

Journeys like this would be brilliant, and would make a lot of sense to
arrang stopping patterns so that they were possible, but it would go
against the grain of current planning, which is already deleting
fast-train stops from Watford Junction (although they have been added at
Stratford in recent years, so YMMV).

I think the most recent RUS recommended stopping every train at
Stratford.

U

--http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

Thank you "U". My mistake. I had forgotten that the East and North
London lines are not really being integrated. The will only run in
parallel and share some stations.

On Apr 17, 6:07*am, "John Rowland"
wrote:
Tom Anderson wrote:

I think this not insubstantial - there are six bus routes serving
Finchley Road, i believe.

They also serve Swiss Cottage, which has disused Met platforms, and
entrances at northbound and southbound bus stops.

*There are three at West Hampstead, and the

overlap with Finchley Road's routes is minimal, so unless many routes
were rearranged, the journeys possible via Finchley Road would be
lost. Finchley Road also has the hugemongous O2 leisure/shopping
centre (and a big Homebase),

The Homebase is nearer to West Hampstead than to Finchley Rd.

and is generally rather more of a high
street than West Hampstead.

I don't agree. Finchley Road is all poundstretchers and a strip club,
whereas West Hampstead is bars and restaurants. West Hampstead certainly has
more pedestrians than Finchley Rd at night, and possibly in the day too.

How surprising. I thought most clubs of that type had gone.
Moreover, when they existed they were confined to Soho. One lives and
learns.

Met. Jub. interchanges at West Hampstead and Swiss Cottage would be
interesting. Althought I doubt they would hep Met. timekeeping.
OTOH I always thought a link to South Hampstead would be useful.
Unfortunately it would be an expensive construction project.

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, 1506 wrote:

On Apr 17, 6:07*am, "John Rowland"
wrote:
Tom Anderson wrote:

Finchley Road [...] and is generally rather more of a high street than
West Hampstead.

I don't agree. Finchley Road is all poundstretchers and a strip club,
whereas West Hampstead is bars and restaurants. West Hampstead
certainly has more pedestrians than Finchley Rd at night, and possibly
in the day too.

How surprising. I thought most clubs of that type had gone. Moreover,
when they existed they were confined to Soho. One lives and learns.

There's a huge one on Tottenham Court Road.

Er, which i know because i work near there.

tom

--
Just add a little flange and phase in

On 29 Apr, 20:52, 1506 wrote:

On Apr 16, 3:40 pm, Mr Thant
wrote:

On 16 Apr, 22:51, Tom Anderson wrote:

(snip)

High Wycombe to Shoreditch with one change would
require ELL trains to be running through as far as
West Hampstead, which is not currently the plan (AIUI).

Yep. Its dedicated tracks will end at H&I with only a single track
connection beyond to the westbound NLL for stock transfers,
making it operationally impossible to run any sort of service.

Journeys like this would be brilliant, and would make a lot of
sense to arrange stopping patterns so that they were possible,
but it would go against the grain of current planning, which is
already deleting fast-train stops from Watford Junction
(although they have been added at Stratford in recent years,
so YMMV).

I think the most recent RUS recommended stopping every train at
Stratford.


Thank you "U". My mistake. I had forgotten that the East and North
London lines are not really being integrated. The will only run in
parallel and share some stations.


The NLL and ELL will only meet and share a station at Highbury and
Islington, they will not run in parallel.

The finalised plan can be seen in a diagram on page 5 of this PDF:
http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pd...appendix12.pdf

I think there was some speculations as to whether ELL trains would run
along to Caledonian Rd & Barnsbury station and then reverse there,
indeed there was also speculation that there would be through running
from the ELL onto the NLL.

Anyway, this is not to be - which is possibly just as well for the
sake of providing a reliable service, even though through running
would have been convenient for passengers. Anyway, changing at
Highbury & Islington shouldn't be too much of a hassle - there will be
frequent trains on both the NLL and ELL, and lifts will be provided at
all the overground platforms to facilitate a step-free interchange.

On Apr 29, 3:50*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 29 Apr, 20:52, 1506 wrote:





On Apr 16, 3:40 pm, Mr Thant
wrote:

On 16 Apr, 22:51, Tom Anderson wrote:

(snip)

High Wycombe to Shoreditch with one change would
require ELL trains to be running through as far as
West Hampstead, which is not currently the plan (AIUI).

Yep. Its dedicated tracks will end at H&I with only a single track
connection beyond to the westbound NLL for stock transfers,
making it operationally impossible to run any sort of service.

Journeys like this would be brilliant, and would make a lot of
sense to arrange stopping patterns so that they were possible,
but it would go against the grain of current planning, which is
already deleting fast-train stops from Watford Junction
(although they have been added at Stratford in recent years,
so YMMV).

I think the most recent RUS recommended stopping every train at
Stratford.

Thank you "U". *My mistake. *I had forgotten that the East and North
London lines are not really being integrated. *The will only run in
parallel and share some stations.

The NLL and ELL will only meet and share a station at Highbury and
Islington, they will not run in parallel.

The finalised plan can be seen in a diagram on page 5 of this PDF:http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pd...appendix12.pdf

I think there was some speculations as to whether ELL trains would run
along to Caledonian Rd & Barnsbury station and then reverse there,
indeed there was also speculation that there would be through running
from the ELL onto the NLL.

Anyway, this is not to be - which is possibly just as well for the
sake of providing a reliable service, even though through running
would have been convenient for passengers. Anyway, changing at
Highbury & Islington shouldn't be too much of a hassle - there will be
frequent trains on both the NLL and ELL, and lifts will be provided at
all the overground platforms to facilitate a step-free interchange.


Thanks Mizter T. However, I think I am missing something here. Will
both lines not call at Caononbury and Dalston Junction?

Thanks

Adrian

On Apr 30, 12:38 am, 1506 wrote:
I think there was some speculations as to whether ELL trains would run
along to Caledonian Rd & Barnsbury station and then reverse there,
indeed there was also speculation that there would be through running
from the ELL onto the NLL.

Thanks Mizter T. However, I think I am missing something here. Will
both lines not call at Caononbury and Dalston Junction?

No - both will call at Canonbury, the ELL will call at Dalston
Junction, and the NLL will continue to call at Dalston Kingsland,
which is a reasonably decent walk from DJ (I'm rubbish at ASCII art,
but DK and DJ are both after the junction - DK is on the eastbound NLL
route to Stratford, and DJ is on the southbound ELL route to
Whitechapel).

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, 1506 wrote:

I thought most clubs of that type had gone.
Moreover, when they existed they were confined to Soho.

There's a huge one on Tottenham Court Road.

Westminster Council (which covers Soho) is one of the more restrictive
boroughs, whereas Tottenham Court Road and Finchley Road station are in
Camden, which is more liberal. Stringfellow was a bit miffed about this,
because his club in Upper St Martins Lane is a few yards outside Camden in
Westminster, so he was not able to effectively compete against Spearmint
Rhino in TCR.

On 30 Apr, 00:38, 1506 wrote:

On Apr 29, 3:50 pm, Mizter T wrote:

On 29 Apr, 20:52, 1506 wrote:

(snip)

I had forgotten that the East and North London lines
are not really being integrated. The will only run in
parallel and share some stations.

The NLL and ELL will only meet and share a station at Highbury and
Islington, they will not run in parallel.

The finalised plan can be seen in a diagram on page 5 of this PDF:
http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pd...appendix12.pdf

I think there was some speculations as to whether ELL trains would run
along to Caledonian Rd & Barnsbury station and then reverse there,
indeed there was also speculation that there would be through running
from the ELL onto the NLL.

Anyway, this is not to be - which is possibly just as well for the
sake of providing a reliable service, even though through running
would have been convenient for passengers. Anyway, changing at
Highbury & Islington shouldn't be too much of a hassle - there will be
frequent trains on both the NLL and ELL, and lifts will be provided at
all the overground platforms to facilitate a step-free interchange.

Thanks Mizter T. However, I think I am missing something here. Will
both lines not call at Caononbury and Dalston Junction?


That's because I'm misleading you, sorry! I had managed to completely
forget about Canonbury station, which is especially daft as I actually
use it every now and then. Both the ELL and NLL will call at both
Canonbury and Highbury & Islington, so you're absolutely right to say
that they will run in parallel and share some (i.e. two) stations.

John B attempts to describe the situation as it will be in his reply
to your post.

However it might help to take a look at this PDF map of the ELLX
project (then again it might not!):
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa..._route_map.pdf

The route from Dalston Junction round to Canonbury and then H&I is
shown in lurid green. What the map doesn't show is the route of the
NLL, which will continue (exactly as it does now) east from Canonbury
to Dalston Kingsland station and then on to Hackney Central. Dalston
Kingsland station is a very short distance north of Dalston Junction.

Here's a street map of the area...
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=533614&y=184644

....Dalston Junction station was and will be just to the west of
Roseberry Place (where the arrow is pointing), and the entrance was
and will be on Dalston Lane, to the north. You can see Dalston
Kingsland station a little further north on the west side of Kingsland
High Street.

Dalston Kingsland station is actually a new station opened in 1983 on
the site of an old station, which was just called "Kingsland".
Kingsland station shut in 1865 when the nearby Dalston Junction
station opened on the new route into Broad Street station. Dalston
Junction then closed along with the rest of this line in 1986.

There was thus never any direct link between the platforms on the east-
west alignment at (Dalston) Kingsland and the north-south alignment at
Dalston Junction - indeed, for most of the time only one of the two
stations were ever actually open for use.

There's more info on Dalston Junction on the 'Disused Stations'
website he
http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/s...on/index.shtml

If you take a look at the old map towards the bottom of that page
you'll see that Dalston Junction also once had a chord running north-
east to connect with what is now called the NLL. This isn't being
reinstated now - there isn't the perceived demand for such services to
run up the ELL and then turn east for Hackney - however should it ever
be needed this link could be reinstated at some point in the future,
as nothing has been built on it apart from a car park.

John B wrote:

On Apr 30, 12:38 am, 1506 wrote:

I think there was some speculations as to whether ELL trains would run
along to Caledonian Rd & Barnsbury station and then reverse there,
indeed there was also speculation that there would be through running
from the ELL onto the NLL.

Thanks Mizter T. However, I think I am missing something here. Will
both lines not call at Caononbury and Dalston Junction?

No - both will call at Canonbury, the ELL will call at Dalston
Junction, and the NLL will continue to call at Dalston Kingsland,
which is a reasonably decent walk from DJ (I'm rubbish at ASCII art,
but DK and DJ are both after the junction - DK is on the eastbound
NLL route to Stratford, and DJ is on the southbound ELL route to
Whitechapel).


Just to clarify what John said - when he states it is a "reasonably
decent walk" between Dalston Junction and Dalston Kingsland, that
should be taken to mean that it really isn't very far at all (which I
presume is what John meant). For ticketing purposes I'd think it
highly likely that there will be an out-of-station interchange between
DK and DJ.

The only real issue I foresee is the possibility of pavement
congestion - Kingsland High Street is already a busy, if somewhat down
market, shopping street. Transferring pax would thus need to negotiate
this as well as cross couple of busy roads - there are of course
proper traffic-light controlled crossings, but it all adds up.

"Mizter T" wrote
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa..._route_map.pdf

The route from Dalston Junction round to Canonbury and then H&I is
shown in lurid green. What the map doesn't show is the route of the
NLL, which will continue (exactly as it does now) east from Canonbury
to Dalston Kingsland station and then on to Hackney Central. Dalston
Kingsland station is a very short distance north of Dalston Junction.

The ELLX will actually be on the tracks of the NLL passenger service between
Dalston and Highbury & Islington, with the NLL shifted to the northern part
of the formation, using the current freight lines, and with the fourth track
reinstated. Between Highbury & Islington and Camden Road there will also be
four tracks, in this case two for the NLL passenger service and effectively
two freight loops.

Half the ELLX trains will terminate at Dalston Junction, with only the other
half going on to Highbury & Islington.

Peter