MIG wrote

The thing about all this is not the scale of the molehill, just that
when there is a molehill, however small, for which there is a
solution, it is sheer bloody-mindedness that makes TfL and its
defenders refuse to contemplate addressing it.

And Tfl's attackers redefine the question as they go.

* "Auto-topup works on buses"

"I'm not letting TFL get their hands on my credit card"

"Bus drivers ought to be required to give change for a £10 note"


Tfl propose to close some ticket offices

"I want to go home, not queue at a London ticket office"

Etc.

--
Mike D

On May 8, 5:37*pm, James Farrar wrote:
On Thu, 8 May 2008 09:35:03 -0700 (PDT), MIG

wrote:
On 8 May, 17:30, James Farrar wrote:
Your moan about not all gates showing the balance is technically true
but irrelevant - the only gates, TTBOMK, that don't have a display are
the *in* gates on the oldest model gates. Even if you happen to use
one such gate to enter the Tube system, you will still be leaving it
by a gate with a reader or a standalone target - all of which will
show you your balance.

I can't remember the last time I went in or out of an LU gate that
displayed anything at all apart from maybe "Enter" or "Exit".

Using PAYG or a Travelcard?

I may not have bothered to look when using a travelcard. But today
I've been through barriers at Chancery Lane using PAYG, in and out,
and they have showed nothing at all.

I think some newer ones have a tiny display on the pad, but it's not
really practical to lean back and peer at it when there's a queue
behind.

I am sure that there used to be information (even if confusing, ie
what's deducted, what's left ...) on the sticky up bits ahead of you,
but they don't display any figures any more. There seems to have been
a general change.

On May 8, 5:47*pm, alex_t wrote:
A) I don't use it enough to make it worthwhile.

It would occasionally save you the difference between cash and Oyster
fares - makes sense if it is a frequent problem for you.

B) If you think I'm giving TfL my credit card details you're leaving
in a dream world

Any reasonable explanation why not?

C) None of this provides a good reason for paying by cash being twice
the price.

Yes, but the cost of paper tickets, handling, printing, proofing them
from fakes - all the extra costs that TfL needs to cover somehow. And
the less people use paper tickets, the more expensive it gets for
single ticket (economy of scale) and the bigger loss for TfL.

Today, while queuing at the ticket office (with a slightly shorter
queue than the machine with a pad) purely to find out how much credit
I had left, because the barriers don't display anything, a couple in
front of me were being charged £8 to get to Finsbury Park and were
shocked.

They lived in Cambridge and had no intention of getting Oyster cards
(£6 in deposits?). Welcome to London.

On May 8, 6:39*pm, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:
MIG wrote

The thing about all this is not the scale of the molehill, just that
when there is a molehill, however small, for which there is a
solution, it is sheer bloody-mindedness that makes TfL and its
defenders refuse to contemplate addressing it.

And Tfl's attackers redefine the question as they go.

* "Auto-topup works on buses"

"I'm not letting TFL get their hands on my credit card"

"Bus drivers ought to be required to give change for a £10 note"

Tfl propose to close some ticket offices

"I want to go home, not queue at a London ticket office"

Etc.

I haven't quite followed your point. You seem to be identifying a
number of potential problems.

If some or even one of them had a simple solution, shouldn't it be
applied?

Are you saying "there's lots of problems, so we can't start solving
any of them in case people ask us to solve the others"?

On Thu, 8 May 2008 11:28:50 -0700 (PDT), MIG
wrote:

On May 8, 5:37*pm, James Farrar wrote:
On Thu, 8 May 2008 09:35:03 -0700 (PDT), MIG

wrote:
On 8 May, 17:30, James Farrar wrote:
Your moan about not all gates showing the balance is technically true
but irrelevant - the only gates, TTBOMK, that don't have a display are
the *in* gates on the oldest model gates. Even if you happen to use
one such gate to enter the Tube system, you will still be leaving it
by a gate with a reader or a standalone target - all of which will
show you your balance.

I can't remember the last time I went in or out of an LU gate that
displayed anything at all apart from maybe "Enter" or "Exit".

Using PAYG or a Travelcard?

I may not have bothered to look when using a travelcard. But today
I've been through barriers at Chancery Lane using PAYG, in and out,
and they have showed nothing at all.

I think some newer ones have a tiny display on the pad, but it's not
really practical to lean back and peer at it when there's a queue
behind.

The oldest gates have displays on the reader (on out gates); all the
other gates have displays on the Exit/Enter display (both ways).

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

On May 8, 5:12*pm, John B wrote:
On 8 May, 12:20, MIG wrote:





There seems to be a standard pattern to these exchanges.

Person A points out that certain people (eg those living in South
London or occasional visitors) are disadvantaged by rules which need
not be as they are and suggests a simple change to the rules.
[...]
Person A says for Godsake, I am just pointing out that the unfairness
is unnecessary and could be solved (repeating whatever the suggestion
was, eg normal priced extensions for paper travelcards).

Person B comes back and says "you are making a mountain out of a
molehill".

The thing about all this is not the scale of the molehill, just that
when there is a molehill, however small, for which there is a
solution, it is sheer bloody-mindedness that makes TfL and its
defenders refuse to contemplate addressing it.

In this case, Person A wasn't talking about something sensible and
straightforward like extension fares - they were suggesting that the
price differential between Oyster and paper tickets should be
abolished, despite the fact that paper tickets are substantially more
expensive for TfL to deal with.

Yes, auto-top-up should work on buses, prepay should be valid for all
rail travel within Greater London, etc, and no, the fact that these
don't work isn't the regular punter's fault.

But that doesn't alter the original point, which is that it saves us
all a lot of time and money if people use Oyster; therefore people who
don't use Oyster cost us all a lot of time and money; therefore it's
fair to charge them more for the privilege.

For people in South London, TfL's feud with NR costs us time and/or
money, because they apply the rules as if Oyster was universally
available. Are we expected to put pressure on our TOCs somehow?

I guess it's the same principle as phone providers charging extra for
calling another network, but they were widely criticised and forced to
change.

On May 8, 7:44*pm, James Farrar wrote:
On Thu, 8 May 2008 11:28:50 -0700 (PDT), MIG





wrote:
On May 8, 5:37*pm, James Farrar wrote:
On Thu, 8 May 2008 09:35:03 -0700 (PDT), MIG

wrote:
On 8 May, 17:30, James Farrar wrote:
Your moan about not all gates showing the balance is technically true
but irrelevant - the only gates, TTBOMK, that don't have a display are
the *in* gates on the oldest model gates. Even if you happen to use
one such gate to enter the Tube system, you will still be leaving it
by a gate with a reader or a standalone target - all of which will
show you your balance.

I can't remember the last time I went in or out of an LU gate that
displayed anything at all apart from maybe "Enter" or "Exit".

Using PAYG or a Travelcard?

I may not have bothered to look when using a travelcard. *But today
I've been through barriers at Chancery Lane using PAYG, in and out,
and they have showed nothing at all.

I think some newer ones have a tiny display on the pad, but it's not
really practical to lean back and peer at it when there's a queue
behind.

The oldest gates have displays on the reader (on out gates); all the
other gates have displays on the Exit/Enter display (both ways).

Having displays is not the same as displaying anything. There really
seems to be a change, and barriers that used to display information no
longer do.

In message , Ken
writes

I carry a book of Saver bus tickets to use when I run out of PAYG
credit. Has come in handy on several occasions. I can't use Auto
top-up as you have to 'charge' the card at an underground barrier and
I rarely use the Tube.

Only the first time to enable the facility. After that even buses can
do it.

If that doesn't help, they will send you a card already enabled for auto
top-up on request. Then you need do nothing other than make sure you
have a quid or two in your account for the update.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

On Thu, 8 May 2008 11:53:19 -0700 (PDT), MIG
wrote:

On May 8, 7:44*pm, James Farrar wrote:
On Thu, 8 May 2008 11:28:50 -0700 (PDT), MIG





wrote:
On May 8, 5:37*pm, James Farrar wrote:
On Thu, 8 May 2008 09:35:03 -0700 (PDT), MIG

wrote:
On 8 May, 17:30, James Farrar wrote:
Your moan about not all gates showing the balance is technically true
but irrelevant - the only gates, TTBOMK, that don't have a display are
the *in* gates on the oldest model gates. Even if you happen to use
one such gate to enter the Tube system, you will still be leaving it
by a gate with a reader or a standalone target - all of which will
show you your balance.

I can't remember the last time I went in or out of an LU gate that
displayed anything at all apart from maybe "Enter" or "Exit".

Using PAYG or a Travelcard?

I may not have bothered to look when using a travelcard. *But today
I've been through barriers at Chancery Lane using PAYG, in and out,
and they have showed nothing at all.

I think some newer ones have a tiny display on the pad, but it's not
really practical to lean back and peer at it when there's a queue
behind.

The oldest gates have displays on the reader (on out gates); all the
other gates have displays on the Exit/Enter display (both ways).

Having displays is not the same as displaying anything. There really
seems to be a change, and barriers that used to display information no
longer do.

I never use PAYG on Z1 gates (I think all the oldest gates are in Z1),
but occasionally travel with someone who does, and they have always
had an updated figure. Perhaps you should write to TfL and let them
know that there is a problem with the gates at this station.

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

James Farrar gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying:

Having displays is not the same as displaying anything. There really
seems to be a change, and barriers that used to display information no
longer do.

I never use PAYG on Z1 gates (I think all the oldest gates are in Z1),
but occasionally travel with someone who does, and they have always had
an updated figure. Perhaps you should write to TfL and let them know
that there is a problem with the gates at this station.

The barrier definitely displayed a balance this morning as I entered the
station here out in the boonies of zone 7...