Tom Anderson wrote:
Traffic accidents kill and harm orders of magnitude more children than
paedophiles or other easy targets. And yet strangely, almost nobody
seems inclined to do anything about them.

Oh they are. The general policy is to teach children to be petrified
of motor vehicles and parents to keep them inside them at all costs.

Should anyone wish, despite this, to cycle, it is made clear to them
that they are being suicidally reckless and are unlikely to survive
long - especially if they fail to wear a plastic hat which is rather
less strong than their skull.

The idea that perhaps the source of the danger should be tackled is
still too radical for those with the power to do it.

Colin McKenzie

--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at
the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as
walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

Colin McKenzie wrote:

Should anyone wish, despite this, to cycle, it is made clear to them
that they are being suicidally reckless and are unlikely to survive
long

Some cyclists are, without doubt, reckless, and are a danger not only to
themselves but to others. When I were a lad, such people were the
exception. Perhaps they still are, but it seems to be less of an
exception than it was.

Over the past year, I can recall one situation I observed where I felt
that a motorist had potentially caused danger to a cyclist. It would be
four or five where the cause of the danger was the cyclist.

.... and that's before we get on to the question of whether cyclists have
lights and visible reflectors when they go out at night...
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p14486561.html
(43 008 at Crewe, 28 Apr 2001)

On Fri, 09 May 2008 10:16:00 GMT someone who may be Chris Tolley
wrote this:-

Some cyclists are, without doubt, reckless, and are a danger not only to
themselves but to others.

That is true of most groups of people.

When I were a lad, such people were the
exception. Perhaps they still are, but it seems to be less of an
exception than it was.

Another possibility is that your perception of danger has changed as
you got older.

Over the past year, I can recall one situation I observed where I felt
that a motorist had potentially caused danger to a cyclist. It would be
four or five where the cause of the danger was the cyclist.

How does a cyclist cause danger to a motorist? While most things are
possible it is not easy. Motorists are inside a box, so even of the
cyclist crashes into them at high speed they are likely to walk away
with no injuries. It is not the same the other way round.

Note that some motorists have claimed not to have noticed that they
were killing a cyclist or pedestrian, that is how isolated some are
from the world outside their little box.




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen wrote:

On Fri, 09 May 2008 10:16:00 GMT someone who may be Chris Tolley
wrote this:-

Some cyclists are, without doubt, reckless, and are a danger not only to
themselves but to others.

That is true of most groups of people.

When I were a lad, such people were the
exception. Perhaps they still are, but it seems to be less of an
exception than it was.

Another possibility is that your perception of danger has changed as
you got older.

I could also simply be in a position to observe more of this than I did
before. It may also be a northern thing. One of the more surprising
aspects of living in Manchester was the casual abandon with which
pedestrians would step off the kerb without checking first that it
wasn't going to be fatal for them.

Over the past year, I can recall one situation I observed where I felt
that a motorist had potentially caused danger to a cyclist. It would be
four or five where the cause of the danger was the cyclist.

How does a cyclist cause danger to a motorist? While most things are
possible it is not easy. Motorists are inside a box, so even of the
cyclist crashes into them at high speed they are likely to walk away
with no injuries. It is not the same the other way round.

In the only one of the incidents I referred to above where *I* was the
motorist, there was a cyclist ahead of me who was on the nearside and
then suddenly, with no signal, and not even a backward glance swerved
across the road in front of me to make a right turn. Because I had
slowed down as I usually do when approaching cyclists, the car which was
behind me was then very close on my bumper, so I couldn't brake hard. My
only option was myself to swerve right and thus cross the centre line.
Fortunately, there was nothing coming the other way. If there had been,
I don't know how I would have come out of it unscathed. As I passed him,
I observed he was wearing an i-Pod, and moreover, the expression on his
face suggested he was oblivious to the incident which almost unfolded
behind him.

Note that some motorists have claimed not to have noticed that they
were killing a cyclist or pedestrian, that is how isolated some are
from the world outside their little box.

Quite. Nowhere have I alleged that motorists are paragons of virtue.

--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9632854.html
(33 054 with assorted vans at Reading - 17 Jan 1981)

David Hansen wrote:

How does a cyclist cause danger to a motorist?

By flying head-first through the window of a car (I have heard of cyclist
who did this, although no-one was injured in that instance). Also by causing
cars to brake or swerve and then suffer collisions with other vehicles or
street furniture.

On Fri, 9 May 2008 12:01:58 +0100 someone who may be "John Rowland"
wrote this:-

How does a cyclist cause danger to a motorist?

By flying head-first through the window of a car

As I said in my next sentence, which you snipped, "While most things
are possible it is not easy."

Presumably this was a side window and it might have been open too?


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen wrote:
On Fri, 9 May 2008 12:01:58 +0100 someone who may be "John Rowland"
wrote this:-

How does a cyclist cause danger to a motorist?

By flying head-first through the window of a car

Presumably this was a side window and it might have been open too?

It was the back window and it wasn't openable (or it was, but it wasn't
closeable!). The cyclist could not remove his head without the assistance of
the driver.

On Fri, 9 May 2008 13:10:20 +0100 someone who may be "John Rowland"
wrote this:-

How does a cyclist cause danger to a motorist?

By flying head-first through the window of a car

Presumably this was a side window and it might have been open too?

It was the back window and it wasn't openable (or it was, but it wasn't
closeable!). The cyclist could not remove his head without the assistance of
the driver.

And they went far enough into the car to cause danger to the
motorist?



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
David Hansen wrote:
On Fri, 9 May 2008 12:01:58 +0100 someone who may be "John Rowland"
wrote this:-

How does a cyclist cause danger to a motorist?

By flying head-first through the window of a car

Presumably this was a side window and it might have been open too?

It was the back window and it wasn't openable (or it was, but it wasn't
closeable!). The cyclist could not remove his head without the assistance
of the driver.

Recently, in Poole IIRC, a cyclist went into the back of a van that had
stopped at a pedestrian crossing with such force he died - what might have
happened to the pedestrians if the van hadn't protected them?

--
Steve Huddy
http://trainsferriesbuses.co.uk

In message
David Hansen wrote:

On Fri, 9 May 2008 12:01:58 +0100 someone who may be "John Rowland"
wrote this:-

How does a cyclist cause danger to a motorist?

By flying head-first through the window of a car

As I said in my next sentence, which you snipped, "While most things
are possible it is not easy."

Presumably this was a side window and it might have been open too?



The case I saw he went through the rear window of an estate. To add to the
fun it was a policeman!

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html