I'm travelling daily from Hampstead Heath on the London Overground to
Canary Wharf over Stratford thus in zones 1 and 2 only. The oyster
PAYG fare is normally £1 since it covers zones 2+3 only.

I noticed that when I change to the DLR at Stratford I am charged £1
for the journey but when I change to the Jubilee line at Stratford I
am charged £2 for the journey.

Why is the Jubilee line charging more than the DLR even though I am
traveling on the same route in the same zones 2 and 3?

Thanks

Sorry,I posted a typo above at the first line should read

I'm travelling daily from Hampstead Heath on the London Overground to
Canary Wharf over Stratford thus in zones 2 and 3 only

On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:02:46 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I'm travelling daily from Hampstead Heath on the London Overground to
Canary Wharf over Stratford thus in zones 1 and 2 only. The oyster
PAYG fare is normally £1 since it covers zones 2+3 only.

I noticed that when I change to the DLR at Stratford I am charged £1
for the journey but when I change to the Jubilee line at Stratford I
am charged £2 for the journey.

Why is the Jubilee line charging more than the DLR even though I am
traveling on the same route in the same zones 2 and 3?

Odd. From the TfL Fare Finder it seems:

- Canary Wharf (Jubilee) and Canary Wharf (DLR) are two separate PAYG
destinations;

- Hampstead Heath to Canary Wharf (DLR) is a Z23 journey;

- Hampstead Heath to Canary Wharf (Jubilee) is a Z12 journey.

This does seem strange, as via Stratford is the most logical route for
the latter. Perhaps if you complain to TfL, they'll consider changing
it?

Incidentally, Hampstead Heath to Bermondsey and Canada Water are also
Z12. Hampstead Heath to North Greenwich is where it switches over to
being Z23.

On Aug 10, 5:58*pm, asdf wrote:
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:02:46 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I'm travelling daily from Hampstead Heath on the London Overground to
Canary Wharf over Stratford thus in zones 1 and 2 only. The oyster
PAYG fare is normally £1 since it covers zones 2+3 only.

I noticed that when I change to the DLR at Stratford I am charged £1
for the journey but when I change *to the Jubilee line at Stratford I
am charged £2 for the journey.

Why is the Jubilee line charging more than the DLR even though I am
traveling on the same route in the same zones 2 and 3?

Odd. From the TfL Fare Finder it seems:

- Canary Wharf (Jubilee) and Canary Wharf (DLR) are two separate PAYG
destinations;

- Hampstead Heath to Canary Wharf (DLR) is a Z23 journey;

- Hampstead Heath to Canary Wharf (Jubilee) is a Z12 journey.

This does seem strange, as via Stratford is the most logical route for
the latter. Perhaps if you complain to TfL, they'll consider changing
it?

Incidentally, Hampstead Heath to Bermondsey and Canada Water are also
Z12. Hampstead Heath to North Greenwich is where it switches over to
being Z23.

That's really weird, since I don't think you can get to North
Greenwich without going through Canada Water or Stratford or zone 1.

On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:06:17 -0700 (PDT), MIG wrote:

Incidentally, Hampstead Heath to Bermondsey and Canada Water are also
Z12. Hampstead Heath to North Greenwich is where it switches over to
being Z23.

That's really weird, since I don't think you can get to North
Greenwich without going through Canada Water or Stratford or zone 1.

What I meant was that if you're travelling from Hampstead Heath to
anywhere on the Jubilee west of Canary Wharf (inclusive), it's assumed
to be via Z1. If you're travelling to anywhere on the Jubilee "east"
of North Greenwich (inclusive), it's assumed to be via Stratford.

On Aug 10, 6:24*pm, asdf wrote:
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:06:17 -0700 (PDT), MIG wrote:
Incidentally, Hampstead Heath to Bermondsey and Canada Water are also
Z12. Hampstead Heath to North Greenwich is where it switches over to
being Z23.

That's really weird, since I don't think you can get to North
Greenwich without going through Canada Water or Stratford or zone 1.

What I meant was that if you're travelling from Hampstead Heath to
anywhere on the Jubilee west of Canary Wharf (inclusive), it's assumed
to be via Z1. If you're travelling to anywhere on the Jubilee "east"
of North Greenwich (inclusive), it's assumed to be via Stratford.

I think it's the OP's wording that's confusing me. It read as if the
£2 was coming up when he went through the barrier at Stratford, rather
than when he got off at Canary Wharf.

However, having gone through that barrier, he ought to be deemed to
have gone via Stratford anyway, one would have thought.

"asdf" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:06:17 -0700 (PDT), MIG wrote:

Incidentally, Hampstead Heath to Bermondsey and Canada Water are also
Z12. Hampstead Heath to North Greenwich is where it switches over to
being Z23.

That's really weird, since I don't think you can get to North
Greenwich without going through Canada Water or Stratford or zone 1.

What I meant was that if you're travelling from Hampstead Heath to
anywhere on the Jubilee west of Canary Wharf (inclusive), it's assumed
to be via Z1. If you're travelling to anywhere on the Jubilee "east"
of North Greenwich (inclusive), it's assumed to be via Stratford.

This is the down side of the automatic 'certain journeys are assumed to
require travel in Zone 1'.
You might think that the visit to the Jubilee line barrier at Stratford
should overide that assumption?

Paul

I do go through the barrier at Stratford as the London Overground
exits outside of the Jubilee line barrier. The fare doesn't change
even if I exit the London Overground without tapping out..

It seems that if traveling from Hampstead Heath, the Stratford-Canary
Wharf leg on the Jubilee line is counted as Z12 while the same leg on
the DLR counts as Z23.This just can't be right.

Can someone inform me on the most effective method to wage a
complaint to TFL?

On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:56:02 -0700 (PDT), MIG wrote:

I think it's the OP's wording that's confusing me. It read as if the
£2 was coming up when he went through the barrier at Stratford, rather
than when he got off at Canary Wharf.

However, having gone through that barrier, he ought to be deemed to
have gone via Stratford anyway, one would have thought.

Arg. No. Can we please put this misconception to bed once and for all?

The Oyster system does NOT have an internal representation of the Tube
map, on which it runs some sort of AI software, to dynamically work
out what route you've taken, taking into account any touches you may
have made along the way, and from that work out what zones you've
passed through.

Instead, it simply takes the origin and destination, and looks up in a
static table what zones that journey is considered to have passed
through.

In other words, its data is of the form "Hampstead Heath to Canary
Wharf (Jubilee) is a Z12 journey", "Hampstead Heath to North Greenwich
is a Z23 journey", etc.

Intermediate touches do NOT make a difference to this.

(The exception is that if you travel from A to C with an intermediate
touch at B, and the A-B fare is higher than the A-C fare, you get
charged the A-B fare for the A-C journey.)

On Aug 10, 7:55*pm, asdf wrote:
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:56:02 -0700 (PDT), MIG wrote:
I think it's the OP's wording that's confusing me. *It read as if the
£2 was coming up when he went through the barrier at Stratford, rather
than when he got off at Canary Wharf.

However, having gone through that barrier, he ought to be deemed to
have gone via Stratford anyway, one would have thought.

Arg. No. Can we please put this misconception to bed once and for all?

The Oyster system does NOT have an internal representation of the Tube
map, on which it runs some sort of AI software, to dynamically work
out what route you've taken, taking into account any touches you may
have made along the way, and from that work out what zones you've
passed through.

Instead, it simply takes the origin and destination, and looks up in a
static table what zones that journey is considered to have passed
through.

In other words, its data is of the form "Hampstead Heath to Canary
Wharf (Jubilee) is a Z12 journey", "Hampstead Heath to North Greenwich
is a Z23 journey", etc.

Intermediate touches do NOT make a difference to this.

(The exception is that if you travel from A to C with an intermediate
touch at B, and the A-B fare is higher than the A-C fare, you get
charged the A-B fare for the A-C journey.)

But what's the difference between calculating fares between
intermediate touches and calculating fares between end points? I
can't see that it would require different software from that which
handles OOS interchanges and the rest. Oh well. It was an aside
anyway.

I still haven't had a chance to do DLR to Hackney with a zone 1 and 2
travelcard loaded on Oyster and touching in on the DLR in zone 2/3,
and seeing if it's charged zone 3 to my PAYG balance. This is mainly
due to the demise of the DLR most weekends and a pretence at a life.