[x-posted to uk.transport.london]
[the London interest is the bit at the bottom of the post about
Travelcards]

On 17 Dec, 13:52, Uncle-C wrote:
I've been checking the various long distance TOC websites ( *NXEC and
Arriva XC) and there seems to be no mention of any ticket restrictions
being lifted over the Christmas period. *Being the season of good will
and all that I had hoped for some festive cheer. Anyone know to the
contrary or will they announce any lifting of *restrictions closer to
Xmas ? I recall last year being allowed to use a SVR on a peak service
from *London.

Thanks again.


+ Arriva Crosscountry: Found this Xmas & New Year travel page on their
website - it's in the 'Find a Train' section but I must admit I found
it using a Google site search - and more to the point is has *nothing*
to say about easing of ticket restrictions:
http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/...ew_Year.asp x


+ Virgin Trains: Only found a mention of it in a PDF of the 'West
Coast Update' handout (again via a Google site search), couldn't find
anything on a conventional webpage at all - and it is only mentioned
at the end of the couple of paragraphs headed 'Tickets' on page 2 or 3
(depends how you're counting it!) where it says:
"Also, there will be no restrictions on Saver tickets from 1100 on 21
December through to 01 January."

http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/img/ab...U_Dec_2007.pdf

Note the use of the old Saver terminology - that should now be "Off-
peak"!


+ NXEC: Again I only found this NXEC page via a Google site search:

http://www.nationalexpresseastcoast....-and-New-Year/

But stupidly I can't find that paged linked to from the NXEC homepage
nor from the 'Travel Information' section's main page to which it
supposedly belongs.

Also, again, the page uses the old pre-'simplification' ticket names
of Saver, Cheap Day, Supersaver etc...

quote
* Saver, Business Saver and Cheap Day ticket restrictions will be
lifted on the afternoon peak on 21 December and all day for travel
between 22 December and 1 January inclusive.
* Supersavers will not be valid for travel from 14 December to 2
January inclusive.
* Off Peak Travelcard restrictions to London on journeys from/via
Peterborough, Grantham and Newark will be lifted on 24, 27, 28, 31
December and 1 January. However, restrictions in London will remain in
place, so Off Peak Travelcards will not be valid on TfL services
(tube, bus, DLR, etc) before 09.30am.
/quote

Interesting about the Off-peak Travelcards being valid at any time to
travel in to London. If all one is doing is travelling straight in to
Kings Cross early then there's no big problem as long as you
understand the fact that you can't use said Off-peak Travelcard until
after 0930 (take a walk down Judd Street instead!).

What I am interested about is what the deal is if you were to travel
on say an FCC train from Peterborough (you could even have changed
there from an NXEC train from Grantham or Newark) to Finsbury Park and
then change - it would obviously not be legit for you to use the
Underground before 0930, but what about another FCC train in to
Moorgate? Or - perhaps a better example - what if you were to travel
down on an FCC stopper to Welwyn, change and then take another stopper
in to Alexandra Palace? In both cases you would be in 'Travelcard
territory' with a ticket that's not really valid until 0930. Unless of
course it would be legit as long as you stayed on FCC trains - or
perhaps it's simply more likely that this exemption only applies to
journeys in to London on NXEC trains, and not FCC trains, from those
three start points (Peterborough, Grantham, Newark).

Nonetheless it would be good if LU staff at for example KX knew about
such things, so they're not left scratching their head with
befuddlement as an early bird shopper heading for the bedlam of the
sales tries to travel on an Off-peak Travelcard. Indeed, maybe they
know already.

Mizter T wrote:
[x-posted to uk.transport.london]
[the London interest is the bit at the bottom of the post about
Travelcards]

+ Virgin Trains: Only found a mention of it in a PDF of the 'West
Coast Update' handout (again via a Google site search), couldn't find
anything on a conventional webpage at all - and it is only mentioned
at the end of the couple of paragraphs headed 'Tickets' on page 2 or 3
(depends how you're counting it!) where it says:
"Also, there will be no restrictions on Saver tickets from 1100 on 21
December through to 01 January."

http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/img/ab...U_Dec_2007.pdf

Note the use of the old Saver terminology - that should now be "Off-
peak"!


+ NXEC: Again I only found this NXEC page via a Google site search:

http://www.nationalexpresseastcoast....-and-New-Year/

But stupidly I can't find that paged linked to from the NXEC homepage
nor from the 'Travel Information' section's main page to which it
supposedly belongs.

Also, again, the page uses the old pre-'simplification' ticket names
of Saver, Cheap Day, Supersaver etc...

Mmm, when these webpages were created those were the terminology. Note
the date on that Virgin link...

--
Jan

On 17 Dec, 15:05, Jan Buxton wrote:
Mizter T wrote:
[x-posted to uk.transport.london]
[the London interest is the bit at the bottom of the post about
Travelcards]

+ Virgin Trains: Only found a mention of it in a PDF of the 'West
Coast Update' handout (again via a Google site search), couldn't find
anything on a conventional webpage at all - and it is only mentioned
at the end of the couple of paragraphs headed 'Tickets' on page 2 or 3
(depends how you're counting it!) where it says:
"Also, there will be no restrictions on Saver tickets from 1100 on 21
December through to 01 January."

http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/img/ab...U_Dec_2007.pdf

Note the use of the old Saver terminology - that should now be "Off-
peak"!

+ NXEC: Again I only found this NXEC page via a Google site search:

http://www.nationalexpresseastcoast....mation/Travell...

But stupidly I can't find that paged linked to from the NXEC homepage
nor from the 'Travel Information' section's main page to which it
supposedly belongs.

Also, again, the page uses the old pre-'simplification' ticket names
of Saver, Cheap Day, Supersaver etc...

Mmm, when these webpages were created those were the terminology. Note
the date on that Virgin link...


Argh, yes, good point - the Virgin trains 'West Coast Update' pamphlet
is indeed from 2007. Tried again and I can't find anything on their
website for '08. Poor show.

However the NXEC webpage is undated, but it does speak of how they
will be "operating revised timetables from 20 December to 4 January
inclusive" - that does fit with the dates this year, i.e. Saturday 20
Dec to Sunday 4 Jan - i.e. the two weeks of festivities bookended by
weekends. So I reckon it's up to date, though somewhat inexplicably it
doesn't appear to be linked to from any other NXEC webpage which is
less than helpful.

And the XC webpage explicitly has days and dates, e.g. "Saturday 20
until Wednesday 24 December", so I'm pretty sure that's information
for Xmas 2008.

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...
On 17 Dec, 15:05, Jan Buxton wrote:

Mmm, when these webpages were created those were the terminology. Note
the date on that Virgin link...


Argh, yes, good point - the Virgin trains 'West Coast Update' pamphlet
is indeed from 2007. Tried again and I can't find anything on their
website for '08. Poor show.

Could THIS possibly be the background to that odd Evening Standard story a
week or two back about Virgin Offpeak change? I.e, non-removal of the SVR
restrictions leads to (Christmas) fare rises? Did anyone with inside info
(such as Newsrail Express) hear anything more on that subject at all BTW?

Paul

On 17 Dec, 14:56, Mizter T wrote:
What I am interested about is what the deal is if you were to travel
on say an FCC train from Peterborough (you could even have changed
there from an NXEC train from Grantham or Newark) to Finsbury Park and
then change - it would obviously not be legit for you to use the
Underground before 0930, but what about another FCC train in to
Moorgate? Or - perhaps a better example - what if you were to travel
down on an FCC stopper to Welwyn, change and then take another stopper
in to Alexandra Palace? In both cases you would be in 'Travelcard
territory' with a ticket that's not really valid until 0930. Unless of
course it would be legit as long as you stayed on FCC trains - or
perhaps it's simply more likely that this exemption only applies to
journeys in to London on NXEC trains, and not FCC trains, from those
three start points (Peterborough, Grantham, Newark).

You've got to assume the relaxation applies all the way to London
Terminals, and that gets FCC to KX and Moorgate and the Victoria and
Piccadilly Lines from Finsbury Park to KX, and the Northern Line and
H&C/Circle/Met to Old Street and Moorgate due to interavailability
rules. Of course this also assumes the relaxation is for the ticket
type in general and not just for NXEC services.

U

On 17 Dec, 19:11, Mr Thant
wrote:

On 17 Dec, 14:56, Mizter T wrote:

What I am interested about is what the deal is if you were to travel
on say an FCC train from Peterborough (you could even have changed
there from an NXEC train from Grantham or Newark) to Finsbury Park and
then change - it would obviously not be legit for you to use the
Underground before 0930, but what about another FCC train in to
Moorgate? Or - perhaps a better example - what if you were to travel
down on an FCC stopper to Welwyn, change and then take another stopper
in to Alexandra Palace? In both cases you would be in 'Travelcard
territory' with a ticket that's not really valid until 0930. Unless of
course it would be legit as long as you stayed on FCC trains - or
perhaps it's simply more likely that this exemption only applies to
journeys in to London on NXEC trains, and not FCC trains, from those
three start points (Peterborough, Grantham, Newark).

You've got to assume the relaxation applies all the way to London
Terminals, and that gets FCC to KX and Moorgate and the Victoria and
Piccadilly Lines from Finsbury Park to KX, and the Northern Line and
H&C/Circle/Met to Old Street and Moorgate due to interavailability
rules. Of course this also assumes the relaxation is for the ticket
type in general and not just for NXEC services.


Good point. On reflection, think it likely that it is an NXEC only
easement. It would be good if the text on the webpage was explicit
about such things, though I think it unlikely many people would wish
to use it in the way I've described.

Anyway, regarding those interavailibility rules - we've had discussion
on here about them in the past, and it would appear that technically
speaking any 'north of London' - London Terminals ticket (such as
Glasgow to London) would be valid on the LU for the journeys you
describe. I can't imagine that LU gates, gateline staff or RPIs would
concede this, at least not without a fuss - and such long distance
journeys are unmistakeably not the target audience of these LU
interavailability rules. However I can't quite see how such long-
distance journeys could be explicitly excluded from these
interavailability rules without breaking the whole routeing guide!

Paul Scott wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote in message
...
On 17 Dec, 15:05, Jan Buxton wrote:

Mmm, when these webpages were created those were the terminology. Note
the date on that Virgin link...

Argh, yes, good point - the Virgin trains 'West Coast Update' pamphlet
is indeed from 2007. Tried again and I can't find anything on their
website for '08. Poor show.

Could THIS possibly be the background to that odd Evening Standard story a
week or two back about Virgin Offpeak change? I.e, non-removal of the SVR
restrictions leads to (Christmas) fare rises?

Except that Virgin *are* removing restrictions from 24th to 2nd. FWIW
thats in NFM01 IIRC.

Did anyone with inside info
(such as Newsrail Express) hear anything more on that subject at all BTW?

Nope. It was a total nonsense of a story.

The only thing in the latest Newsrail Express relating to Virgin is that
they are reinstating the no break of journey allowed on outward journey
restriction for various off-peak tickets including the 2C (ie PRE-EUS)
and 3A (ie LAN-EUS) restrictions.

--
Jan

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:21:20 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Could THIS possibly be the background to that odd Evening Standard story a
week or two back about Virgin Offpeak change?

The only other one I can see is that they seem to have added peak
northbound restrictions at MKC (for some odd reason a wider window
than Euston, as well - 1500 to 1900, not about 1600 to 1900 like you
might expect if it's mean to be the same trains) which didn't
previously exist.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 22:58:17 +0000, Jan Buxton
wrote:

The only thing in the latest Newsrail Express relating to Virgin is that
they are reinstating the no break of journey allowed on outward journey
restriction for various off-peak tickets including the 2C (ie PRE-EUS)
and 3A (ie LAN-EUS) restrictions.

Odd. I wonder are TOCs actually losing revenue over the "slackened"
BoJ restrictions? Or are they intending to use it to stop people
starting long/ending short on the outward and thus avoiding
restrictions?

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On 18 Dec, 11:47, (Neil Williams)
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:21:20 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
Could THIS possibly be the background to that odd Evening Standard story a
week or two back about Virgin Offpeak change?

The only other one I can see is that they seem to have added peak
northbound restrictions at MKC (for some odd reason a wider window
than Euston, as well - 1500 to 1900, not about 1600 to 1900 like you
might expect if it's mean to be the same trains) which didn't
previously exist.


Perhaps this is to stop people splitting tickets - or rather more
accurately, splitting their journey, i.e. LM from Euston to Milton
Keynes, then change and catch Virgin on from there. Have they done the
same at Watford Junction I wonder?

Splitting a journey like that is certainly something I'd be willing to
do - or to have done. I wonder if Virgin analyses the tickets they
sell online (if Trainline can and does provide each TOC with a branded
booking engine a breakdown), or indeed the tickets collected from
their Fasticket machines (that may indeed have been sold by another
online booking service), so as to look out for trends in ticket
splitting? Of course they can also look at the levels of 'any
permitted' ticket sales (both their own sales and also across the
industry) on routes they serve and attempt to read some conclusions
from that as well.

(It is indeed odd that the MKC restriction starts at 1500 not 1600.)