King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
 

On 31 Jan, 15:30, Roland Perry wrote:
I've added a red/white circle where I assume the new lift is going

One fundamental requirement is it being located between the platforms,
surely?

As mentioned, there is a hoarding against the south wall of the
central concourse at Northern Line platform level, which puts the top
end of the shaft either east or west of the station control room,
which is at the north end of the tube ticket hall gateline. I'm
curious how they'll create access to it.

(there's a strange square cupboard thing located between the ticket
hall's steps and the control room, which although outside the gateline
is my current favourite location)

U

King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
 

On 31 Jan, 15:30, Roland Perry wrote:
I didn't know these old lifts existed until they were mentioned earlier
today. Can you describe where they are on my plan (percentage X and Y
co-ords if necessary):
http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-composite.jpg
Between the two original cross passages on the northern line. That's
approximately right next to the point where the new passage from the
northern ticket hall turns the corner to descend to the platforms.

I've added a red/white circle where I assume the new lift is going, and
a red/purple circle at the only place the Northern Ticket Hall's airside
concourse is at subsurface level.
http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-composite-b.jpg
I think you've put it much too far north. I'd have said it was going
due south of there, right next to the wall of the ticket office, where
the escalator starts; its the obvious place. Its right in the middle
of the old passage that's being closed, which presumably would be why
it needs to be closed (and hence why the stairs need to be closed).

The old piccadilly lifts were between the victoria and piccadilly
escalators, near the awkward steps that go between the victoria and
piccadilly. That's why there's that round thing at the surface there
(its a bit hidden away in the general concourse shape, but its still
there in the new artists impressions of what it will look like when
they ditch the 70s concourse)

King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
 

In message
, at
07:53:45 on Sat, 31 Jan 2009, Mr Thant
remarked:
I've added a red/white circle where I assume the new lift is going

One fundamental requirement is it being located between the platforms,
surely?

Hmm, I suppose it must. Which puts it in that square to the bottom left
of my original circle. I've added a red circle...
--
Roland Perry

King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
 

In message
, at
07:58:34 on Sat, 31 Jan 2009, lonelytraveller
remarked:
On 31 Jan, 15:30, Roland Perry wrote:
I didn't know these old lifts existed until they were mentioned earlier
today. Can you describe where they are on my plan (percentage X and Y
co-ords if necessary):
http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-composite.jpg
Between the two original cross passages on the northern line. That's
approximately right next to the point where the new passage from the
northern ticket hall turns the corner to descend to the platforms.

OK, so too much "landside" to be used as a lift entrance today.

I've added a red/white circle where I assume the new lift is going, and
a red/purple circle at the only place the Northern Ticket Hall's airside
concourse is at subsurface level.
http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-composite-b.jpg
I think you've put it much too far north. I'd have said it was going
due south of there, right next to the wall of the ticket office, where
the escalator starts; its the obvious place. Its right in the middle
of the old passage that's being closed, which presumably would be why
it needs to be closed (and hence why the stairs need to be closed).

You don't seem to be talking about the Northern ticket hall at all.

(Are you confusing "Northern Line" with "Northern Ticket Hall", as in
"at the north end of the KX site near platforms 9-11?")

The old piccadilly lifts were between the victoria and piccadilly
escalators, near the awkward steps that go between the victoria and
piccadilly. That's why there's that round thing at the surface there
(its a bit hidden away in the general concourse shape, but its still
there in the new artists impressions of what it will look like when
they ditch the 70s concourse)

Ah! That was what I initially thought was the "lift room" for this new
northern-line lift, but it's in the wrong place. Maybe just a vent these
days?

It's in line with the centre of the KX shed, and in my composite picture
is just visible as a dark blob where the Piccadilly escalators cross the
lower stage down to the Northern. Obviously this gives me a new
datapoint to slightly adjust the map.

Can you describe where the bottom end was, in relation to the bottom of
the Piccadilly Line escalator escalator and the side passage to the top
of the Northern Line escalator?
--
Roland Perry

King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
 

On 31 Jan, 21:23, Roland Perry wrote:
On 31 Jan, 15:30, Roland Perry wrote:
I didn't know these old lifts existed until they were mentioned earlier
today. Can you describe where they are on my plan (percentage X and Y
co-ords if necessary):
http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-composite.jpg
Between the two original cross passages on the northern line. That's
approximately right next to the point where the new passage from the
northern ticket hall turns the corner to descend to the platforms.
OK, so too much "landside" to be used as a lift entrance today.
Only if you have just the one level to the ticket hall, rather than a
subbasement.

I've added a red/white circle where I assume the new lift is going, and
a red/purple circle at the only place the Northern Ticket Hall's airside
concourse is at subsurface level.
http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-composite-b.jpg
I think you've put it much too far north. I'd have said it was going
due south of there, right next to the wall of the ticket office, where
the escalator starts; its the obvious place. Its right in the middle
of the old passage that's being closed, which presumably would be why
it needs to be closed (and hence why the stairs need to be closed).
You don't seem to be talking about the Northern ticket hall at all.
I'm referring to the red/white circle.

The old piccadilly lifts were between the victoria and piccadilly
escalators, near the awkward steps that go between the victoria and
piccadilly. That's why there's that round thing at the surface there
(its a bit hidden away in the general concourse shape, but its still
there in the new artists impressions of what it will look like when
they ditch the 70s concourse)
Ah! That was what I initially thought was the "lift room" for this new
northern-line lift, but it's in the wrong place. Maybe just a vent these
days?
Well, the west/south bound victoria line goes straight through those
lift shafts. That's those curved wall bits in the tunnel just as the
train leaves the platform, so I think it might be a bit awkward to use
as ventilation. If they'd built the victoria line slightly north or
south though, it wouldn't have been a problem.

Can you describe where the bottom end was, in relation to the bottom of
the Piccadilly Line escalator escalator and the side passage to the top
of the Northern Line escalator?
There were three parallel tunnels from the lifts, one for people going
to the platforms, and two for people leaving (one per platform).The
western one went from the end of the northbound picadilly platform,
the eastern was slightly indented from the southbound platform,
starting at the south end. The middle passage was parallel with the
northbound platform, between it and the current piccadilly concourse,
but the current cross passages cut through this tunnel and its mostly
been turned into cupboards/etc. The original northern end of the
passage opened into a cross passage, which is still there and in
public use; its easily spotted because the doorway has a decorative
edge.

The escalators to the northern line cut straight through where these
passages went, but the far side is still there; you can get into them
from the door at the top of the northern line escalators. The lift
shafts are beyond that door, which is roughly in line with the
southernmost of the three passages.

King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
 

In message
, at
16:04:49 on Sat, 31 Jan 2009, lonelytraveller
remarked:

I didn't know these old lifts existed until they were mentioned earlier
today. Can you describe where they are on my plan

Between the two original cross passages on the northern line. That's
approximately right next to the point where the new passage from the
northern ticket hall turns the corner to descend to the platforms.
OK, so too much "landside" to be used as a lift entrance today.

Only if you have just the one level to the ticket hall, rather than a
subbasement.

Wouldn't such a sub-basement have been fitted a couple of years ago, if
that was the plan? You'd also need a lift down to the sub-basement, of
course...

I've added a red/white circle where I assume the new lift is going

I think you've put it much too far north. I'd have said it was going
due south of there, right next to the wall of the ticket office, where
the escalator starts; its the obvious place. Its right in the middle
of the old passage that's being closed, which presumably would be why
it needs to be closed (and hence why the stairs need to be closed).

I'm referring to the red/white circle.

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-composite-b.jpg

So where the red-circle is.

The old piccadilly lifts were between the victoria and piccadilly
escalators, near the awkward steps that go between the victoria and
piccadilly. That's why there's that round thing at the surface there
(its a bit hidden away in the general concourse shape, but its still
there in the new artists impressions of what it will look like when
they ditch the 70s concourse)
Ah! That was what I initially thought was the "lift room" for this new
northern-line lift, but it's in the wrong place. Maybe just a vent these
days?
Well, the west/south bound victoria line goes straight through those
lift shafts. That's those curved wall bits in the tunnel just as the
train leaves the platform, so I think it might be a bit awkward to use
as ventilation. If they'd built the victoria line slightly north or
south though, it wouldn't have been a problem.

So why is there a need for the "round thing" at ground level in the new
Plaza?

--
Roland Perry

King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
 

On 6 Feb, 11:11, Roland Perry wrote:
Wouldn't such a sub-basement have been fitted a couple of years ago, if
that was the plan? You'd also need a lift down to the sub-basement, of
course...
There's a lift to a mid level by the metropolitan line stairs (the set
leading from the tube ticket hall)

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-composite-b.jpg
So where the red-circle is.
No. Diagonally southeast of there. At the corner of the ticket hall

Well, the west/south bound victoria line goes straight through those
lift shafts.
So why is there a need for the "round thing" at ground level in the new
Plaza?
Maybe they're still using the upper parts for something - they've put
in a door in the ticket hall that leads to it (its between the two
sets of escalators)

King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
 

In message
, at
11:11:42 on Fri, 6 Feb 2009, lonelytraveller
remarked:
On 6 Feb, 11:11, Roland Perry wrote:
Wouldn't such a sub-basement have been fitted a couple of years ago, if
that was the plan? You'd also need a lift down to the sub-basement, of
course...
There's a lift to a mid level by the metropolitan line stairs (the set
leading from the tube ticket hall)

Yes, but the level it goes to is not deep enough to be called a
"sub-basement. If there was a sub-basement, that lift could be extended
(downwards), assuming the sub-basement extended to whole width of the
gatelines (and the lifts down to the Northern Line are at the opposite
end).

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-composite-b.jpg
So where the red-circle is.
No. Diagonally southeast of there. At the corner of the ticket hall

Can you give an X/Y grid reference (where the red dot is 3.4 across and
4.2 up)?

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-composite-c.jpg

--
Roland Perry

King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
 

On 7 Feb, 11:36, Roland Perry wrote:
Yes, but the level it goes to is not deep enough to be called a
"sub-basement. If there was a sub-basement, that lift could be extended
(downwards), assuming the sub-basement extended to whole width of the
gatelines (and the lifts down to the Northern Line are at the opposite
end).

I believe "sub basement" is being used to refer to the lower part of
the ticket hall were the gates are. Having the lift come up airside
means you have to go through the barriers then up another lift to get
anywhere at all. Having it come up landside level with the top of the
stairs. Means one less lift to get to the SSL platforms or the
Northern Ticket Hall where the lifts to the other lines are.

Can you give an X/Y grid reference (where the red dot is 3.4 across and
4.2 up)?

Coming down the Northern Line escalators you end up in the big yellow
concourse area and the furthest end of the left hand wall (at 4,3) has
had the lining removed. Whether the diagram is accurate enough to use
that as an indicator of where the top end will be I don't know.

U

King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
 

In message
, at
04:04:55 on Sat, 7 Feb 2009, Mr Thant
remarked:
On 7 Feb, 11:36, Roland Perry wrote:
Yes, but the level it goes to is not deep enough to be called a
"sub-basement. If there was a sub-basement, that lift could be extended
(downwards), assuming the sub-basement extended to whole width of the
gatelines (and the lifts down to the Northern Line are at the opposite
end).

I believe "sub basement" is being used to refer to the lower part of
the ticket hall were the gates are. Having the lift come up airside
means you have to go through the barriers then up another lift to get
anywhere at all. Having it come up landside level with the top of the
stairs. Means one less lift to get to the SSL platforms or the
Northern Ticket Hall where the lifts to the other lines are.

The suggestion was exactly the other way round, as far as I could see.

The top of the lift needs to be airside because the bottom is airside.
But the position being discussed seemed to be "very" landside (the
pedestrian tunnel to the 1970's KX concourse is landside, obviously.

I though that lonelytraveller was suggesting a sub-basement (which would
be airside, but under the current landside ticket hall), with some
connection to the airside of the barriers. Pax would then have to use
*both* the barriers and the current lift to get step-free to the outside
world.

Can you give an X/Y grid reference (where the red dot is 3.4 across and
4.2 up)?

Coming down the Northern Line escalators you end up in the big yellow
concourse area and the furthest end of the left hand wall (at 4,3) has
had the lining removed. Whether the diagram is accurate enough to use
that as an indicator of where the top end will be I don't know.

That seems like one of the few places to put an airside lift. It'll chew
a bit away from the circulating area at the top of the Piccadilly
Escalator, perhaps.

I'll have a close look next time I'm down there (maybe Monday).
--
Roland Perry