King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
 

In message , at 17:14:56 on
Mon, 26 Jan 2009, Paul Scott remarked:
My understanding is that the bridge is only for passengers going *to* the
trains.

Correct, as we discussed a while back with reference to some 'flow diagrams'
in some report or other that I can't find again. As usual...

Yes, I'm pretty sure that's the one which said the flows would be
clogged up by people not wanting to step out into the rain.

IIRC it won't be the primary route for anything, it just seems to be a
second access route to the platforms for pax who have been using the
catering facilities at first floor level...

Are those first floor facilities airside or landside? Just interested to
know how the gatelines and the bridge inter-react.
--
Roland Perry

King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
 

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...


I haven't entirely figured it out yet, like what route will passengers
exiting the Tube take into the Western concourse... ok, so now I'm
looking at page 4 of the "Proposed 3" drawings which appears to show a
direct exit from the Tube station into the western concourse, right on
the westernmost side. And this appears again on pages 8 and 10 - but
it looks solely like a link to the deep-level tubes, so I think this
is in fact the new northern Tube ticket hall. I'd need to spend a bit
of time with these drawings to properly figure it all out.

There are some drawings here that help with the relative layouts:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/ct...oncapacity.pdf

HTH Paul S

King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
 

Indeed the passenger bridge crossing from platforms 1 to 8 was
dismantled over Christmas, I used it every day for years, the supports
at either end are still in-place at this time. Parts of this bridge
are in cordoned off lock ups at the far end of platform 8. There was
talk that the passenger walk way exit at the top end of platform one
is to close also and passengers having to walk first around the front
of that satantion and then to the west end ticket hall before getting
access to the station. I would guess that some form of ticket barriers
will also go in and this is why this would be the only entrance.
Builders are dismantling the buildings by the top end of platform one
brick by brick. I did read something about an extra platform being
installed and would guess it would be next to platform one and why
they would close the top end side entrance there, been building there
for ages, its where the taxi used to drive down the side of platform
one. Anyone any info?

King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:14:56 on Mon,
26 Jan 2009, Paul Scott remarked:
My understanding is that the bridge is only for passengers going *to*
the
trains.

Correct, as we discussed a while back with reference to some 'flow
diagrams'
in some report or other that I can't find again. As usual...

Yes, I'm pretty sure that's the one which said the flows would be clogged
up by people not wanting to step out into the rain.

Yes, thats about right, anyway I've found the flow diagrams again now, they
are in 'Station Design and Passenger Movements', one of the LB Camden
drawings Mizter T has just linked to at :

http://tinyurl.com/cth9rq

IIRC it won't be the primary route for anything, it just seems to be a
second access route to the platforms for pax who have been using the
catering facilities at first floor level...

Are those first floor facilities airside or landside? Just interested to
know how the gatelines and the bridge inter-react.

There is a small gateline just where the bridge passes through the west side
office range, which is marked up as Overbridge Entry, and coloured for
'arrivals into station' (remember we worked out the drawing uses arrivals
and departures 'on foot' rather than by train!) so inside the train shed the
bridge and escalators are 'paid side'.

Just to add to the confusion there is a two way gateline in the same place
but at ground level, between the western ticket hall and train shed marked
as 'Platform 8 link'.

Paul S

King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
 

On 26 Jan, 14:16, Mizter T wrote:
On 26 Jan, 13:39, Paul Oter wrote:



On 26 Jan, 09:54, Allan wrote:

John Salmon wrote:
Surprisingly, I don't think this has been posted here yet...

Posters displayed at King's Cross indicate that the entrance to the
Underground from within the main line station concourse - the one more
or less opposite platform 7 - which seems to have been there for ever,
at least within my recollection, is to close permanently from next
Sunday, 1st February.

I may be missing something, but this is a great pity. *It was so easy to
get off an arriving train, and straight down the stairs into the
underground.

.. though you haven't been able to do that in the morning peak (7am to
10am Mon-Fri) for many months now, since the entrance/exit in question
is closed during those hours.

I wonder why this is the case - because it's easier to handle the
crowds outside at the new entrance perhaps?



Fom 1 Feb, you have through the often crowded station concourse, out of
the front of the station, merge in with everyone else coming into the
station, and then down the stairs.

Yes, I have had to do that every mornng for ages. Worse, the entrance
in front of the station is always "throttled" during the morning peak
(by partially closing the sliding gates) to allow only one person in
at a time, leading to a big melee of people outside trying to get in.

I dare say this happens with good reason, that being the crowdedness
of the ticket hall. The new northern ticket hall should abate this
somewhat.

Yes, it's to prevent overcrowding in the station. As you say, it's
better to create a crowd outside in the street than inside the
mainline station (except when it's raining...).

PaulO

King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
 

In message , at 18:20:52 on
Mon, 26 Jan 2009, Paul Scott remarked:
Yes, I'm pretty sure that's the one which said the flows would be clogged
up by people not wanting to step out into the rain.

Yes, thats about right, anyway I've found the flow diagrams again now, they
are in 'Station Design and Passenger Movements', one of the LB Camden
drawings Mizter T has just linked to at :

http://tinyurl.com/cth9rq

Oh yus. It's all deliberate. It's to "animate the square" and "avoid
conflicting flows" into the new western concourse. And...

"From detailed studies at Warren Street tube station, where a similar
situation exists with the gate line close to the station boundary, it
has been observed that passengers tend to slow down after the
gates during wet weather often stopping totally to button clothing, lift
hoods to cover their heads, or to raise umbrellas. This results in a
very obvious reduction in passenger flow and it has been observed to
cause tail backs and reduce the capacity of gate lines."

So they've bodged a canopy on the front of the building to (pardon my
French): "give passengers the opportunity to make public realm route
decisions external to the operational areas of the station in all
weather conditions".

Well, folks, my "public realm route decision" is to ask Arup to roll up
these plans and use them as a suppository!!

IIRC it won't be the primary route for anything, it just seems to be a
second access route to the platforms for pax who have been using the
catering facilities at first floor level...

Are those first floor facilities airside or landside? Just interested to
know how the gatelines and the bridge inter-react.

There is a small gateline just where the bridge passes through the west side
office range, which is marked up as Overbridge Entry, and coloured for
'arrivals into station' (remember we worked out the drawing uses arrivals
and departures 'on foot' rather than by train!) so inside the train shed the
bridge and escalators are 'paid side'.

Just to add to the confusion there is a two way gateline in the same place
but at ground level, between the western ticket hall and train shed marked
as 'Platform 8 link'.

So if you go "up" in one of the lifts to the bridge, all you can do is
go "down" to another platform?

--
Roland Perry

King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
 

On Jan 26, 7:57*pm, Paul Oter wrote:
On 26 Jan, 14:16, Mizter T wrote:





On 26 Jan, 13:39, Paul Oter wrote:

On 26 Jan, 09:54, Allan wrote:

John Salmon wrote:
Surprisingly, I don't think this has been posted here yet...

Posters displayed at King's Cross indicate that the entrance to the
Underground from within the main line station concourse - the one more
or less opposite platform 7 - which seems to have been there for ever,
at least within my recollection, is to close permanently from next
Sunday, 1st February.

I may be missing something, but this is a great pity. *It was so easy to
get off an arriving train, and straight down the stairs into the
underground.

.. though you haven't been able to do that in the morning peak (7am to
10am Mon-Fri) for many months now, since the entrance/exit in question
is closed during those hours.

I wonder why this is the case - because it's easier to handle the
crowds outside at the new entrance perhaps?

Fom 1 Feb, you have through the often crowded station concourse, out of
the front of the station, merge in with everyone else coming into the
station, and then down the stairs.

Yes, I have had to do that every mornng for ages. Worse, the entrance
in front of the station is always "throttled" during the morning peak
(by partially closing the sliding gates) to allow only one person in
at a time, leading to a big melee of people outside trying to get in.

I dare say this happens with good reason, that being the crowdedness
of the ticket hall. The new northern ticket hall should abate this
somewhat.

Yes, it's to prevent overcrowding in the station. As you say, it's
better to create a crowd outside in the street than inside the
mainline station (except when it's raining...).

PaulO-

But that's how it is NOW, with the concourse entrance still there. I
was under the impression that people weren't even allowed to use the
pavement entrance at certain times.

So how is it expected to cope? Mystified.

A bit like if they closed some more passages at Bank and then
announced that it was now a usable interchange.

King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
 

In message , at 18:01:06 on
Mon, 26 Jan 2009, Paul Scott remarked:
There are some drawings here that help with the relative layouts:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/ct...oncapacity.pdf

Figure 12 is the one that I've been working with earlier today. The
entrance "under the greenhouse" outside the SW corner of the KX listed
frontage is the one marked "Kings Cross Mainline ECML".

I reckon the shed runs parallel to the long passageway between the old
ticket office and the northern one.
--
Roland Perry

King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 18:01:06 on Mon,
26 Jan 2009, Paul Scott remarked:
There are some drawings here that help with the relative layouts:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/ct...oncapacity.pdf

Figure 12 is the one that I've been working with earlier today. The
entrance "under the greenhouse" outside the SW corner of the KX listed
frontage is the one marked "Kings Cross Mainline ECML".

I reckon the shed runs parallel to the long passageway between the old
ticket office and the northern one.

Sounds good to me, with the SW corner of the main train shed immediately
adjacent to the 'NE' side of that 5-sided purple 'junction' at the left of
the stairs.

A few boxes overlaid on that drawing would have been useful, I reckon the
entrance to the St Pancras cross passage must be just above the word 'after'
in the title...

Paul S

King's Cross entrance to Underground to close
 

On 26 Jan, 20:51, MIG wrote:
On Jan 26, 7:57*pm, Paul Oter wrote:



On 26 Jan, 14:16, Mizter T wrote:

On 26 Jan, 13:39, Paul Oter wrote:

.. though you haven't been able to do that in the morning peak (7am to
10am Mon-Fri) for many months now, since the entrance/exit in question
is closed during those hours.

I wonder why this is the case - because it's easier to handle the
crowds outside at the new entrance perhaps?

Fom 1 Feb, you have through the often crowded station concourse, out of
the front of the station, merge in with everyone else coming into the
station, and then down the stairs.

Yes, I have had to do that every mornng for ages. Worse, the entrance
in front of the station is always "throttled" during the morning peak
(by partially closing the sliding gates) to allow only one person in
at a time, leading to a big melee of people outside trying to get in.