On Jan 28, 6:50*am, Mizter T wrote:
On 28 Jan, 13:22, Graeme Wall wrote:





In message
* * * * * Stephen Furley wrote:

On 28 Jan, 12:35, Brian Robertson wrote:
What is the history of the totem station name signs? Were they purely a
BR design? Were they first introduced straight after nationalisation?
Were they an adaptation of an existing design (As in the LNER brakevan
becoming the BR standard).

The shape was pure BR, but the idea of the name on a bar passing
through some sort of shape was used previously by a number of
railways, the SR targets are probably the closest to the BR totems,
but there are also the LT roundel signs, and at least one railway had
diamond shaped ones, but I cannot remember who.

LT again, before the roundels. *Actually, strictly speaking I think it was
only the Metropolitan, not LT as a whole. *The roundel was adopted about
1908.

There was no LT before the roundel. The roundel first appeared in
1908, when the various underground railway companies agreed to use the
term Underground, the 'UndergrounD' logotype and also use a bar and
circle device for station name boards. That's all the underground
railway companies apart from the Metropolitan Railway, who decided to
go their own way in 1914 with the diamond device.

The LT Museum has a section that deals with the history of the roundel
he
http://www.ltmcollection.org/roundel/about/detailedhistory.html

Note that the London General Omnibus Company (LGOC) had introduced a
'winged wheel' device as their logo in 1905. In 1912 the Underground
Electric Railways Company of London Limited (UERL) - also known as the
Underground Group - purchased LGOC.

The roundel in use on the Underground was developed further in the
1910s, resulting in the familiar roundel incorporating the UndergrounD
logotype in the centre bar. This design of roundel then started to
appear on publicity, station nameboards and the exterior of stations.

Separate versions of the roundel were then developed for other
constituent companies in the Underground Group - of particular note is
the LGOC roundel, with the 'GeneraL' logotype in the centre bar. In a
senase this was mirrored by what happened in 2003 when TfL had a big
graphic redesign and started using different roundel designs for all
its constituent parts - Streets, DLR, London Rail etc.

AIUI the separate diamond device as used on the Metropolitan was
phased out when the Metropolitan Railway - along with the Underground
Group and other bus companies and tram operations in the London area -
became part of the new London Passenger Transport Board, which quickly
adopted the trading name of 'London Transport'.

Anyway the section on the LT Museum website is well worth a look, it
goes into it all in a lot more detail.

Thank you. I think I have read all this before. One has never seen
it put so succinctly. You have summarized the roundel's history very
well. I am cross posting this to enable it to reach a wider audience.

In article f7ac35bb-4781-477a-b0c2-66ce1666ca94
@o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com, says...
On Jan 28, 6:50*am, Mizter T wrote:
On 28 Jan, 13:22, Graeme Wall wrote:





In message
* * * * * Stephen Furley wrote:

On 28 Jan, 12:35, Brian Robertson wrote:
What is the history of the totem station name signs? Were they purely a
BR design? Were they first introduced straight after nationalisation?
Were they an adaptation of an existing design (As in the LNER brakevan
becoming the BR standard).

The shape was pure BR, but the idea of the name on a bar passing
through some sort of shape was used previously by a number of
railways, the SR targets are probably the closest to the BR totems,
but there are also the LT roundel signs, and at least one railway had
diamond shaped ones, but I cannot remember who.

LT again, before the roundels. *Actually, strictly speaking I think it was
only the Metropolitan, not LT as a whole. *The roundel was adopted about
1908.

There was no LT before the roundel. The roundel first appeared in
1908, when the various underground railway companies agreed to use the
term Underground, the 'UndergrounD' logotype and also use a bar and
circle device for station name boards. That's all the underground
railway companies apart from the Metropolitan Railway, who decided to
go their own way in 1914 with the diamond device.


Just for the record the Metropolitan diamond device was also in use on
the Northern City Line [which once was once part of the Metropolitan
system] and a green version on the East London Line. These were still
in use in the 50's.

Jim Brittin wrote:

Just for the record the Metropolitan diamond device was also in use on
the Northern City Line [which once was once part of the Metropolitan
system] and a green version on the East London Line. These were still
in use in the 50's.

What was the removed logo above the roundel at East Finchley?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...n_building.JPG

On 28 Jan, 20:25, "John Rowland"
wrote:

Jim Brittin wrote:

Just for the record the Metropolitan diamond device was also in use on
the Northern City Line [which once was once part of the Metropolitan
system] and a green version on the East London Line. *These were still
in use in the 50's.

What was the removed logo above the roundel at East Finchley?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...a/East_Finchle...

LNER - this is in connection with the abandoned Northern Heights
extension of the Northern line over LNER lines. I must admit I can't
remember whether any LNER trains would have actually served East
Finchley should the project have been completed.

You can see photos of this in the LT Museum photographic collection,
which is searchable online he
http://www.ltmcollection.org/photos/index.html

The resultant URLs are somewhat epic in length so I haven't posted any
direct links here. One can link directly to the image itself, but then
you're lacking the surrounding explanatory text.

In message
"John Rowland" wrote:

Jim Brittin wrote:

Just for the record the Metropolitan diamond device was also in use on
the Northern City Line [which once was once part of the Metropolitan
system] and a green version on the East London Line. These were still
in use in the 50's.

What was the removed logo above the roundel at East Finchley?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...n_building.JPG




I can't see a removed logo...

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

"Mizter T" wrote

LNER - this is in connection with the abandoned Northern Heights
extension of the Northern line over LNER lines. I must admit I can't
remember whether any LNER trains would have actually served East
Finchley should the project have been completed.

Between July and September 1939 East Finchley was served by Northern Line
trains to High Barnet and LNER steam trains to Edgware. From then until
March 1941 steam trains continued to run to East Finchley, but the service
to Edgware was withdrawn to facilitate doubling and electrification. From
May 1941 Northern Line trains began to run to Mill Hill East, but further
work on the Northern Heights scheme was suspended for the duration, and
never resumed.

AIUI the eventual intention was for the whole passenger service to be part
of the Northern Line, with services from Morden via Charing Cross and Bank
to Edgware via Golders Green and to High Barnet, and from Moorgate via
Finsbury Park to Edgware via Mill Hill East and to Alexandra Palace (the
original branch line station, not the current one which used to be named
Wood Green). The LNER would have continued to operate freight services to
High Barnet and Edgware (as indeed BR did until the 1960s).

Peter

On 28 Jan, 22:16, Graeme Wall wrote:

I can't see a removed logo...

That sort of 'eye' shaped thing used to contain the LNER logo. I
can't seem to find a photo of it at the moment.

Peter Masson wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote

LNER - this is in connection with the abandoned Northern Heights
extension of the Northern line over LNER lines. I must admit I can't
remember whether any LNER trains would have actually served East
Finchley should the project have been completed.

Between July and September 1939 East Finchley was served by Northern
Line trains to High Barnet and LNER steam trains to Edgware. From
then until March 1941 steam trains continued to run to East Finchley,
but the service to Edgware was withdrawn to facilitate doubling and
electrification. From May 1941 Northern Line trains began to run to
Mill Hill East, but further work on the Northern Heights scheme was
suspended for the duration, and never resumed.

AIUI the eventual intention was for the whole passenger service to be
part of the Northern Line, with services from Morden via Charing
Cross and Bank to Edgware via Golders Green and to High Barnet, and
from Moorgate via Finsbury Park to Edgware via Mill Hill East and to
Alexandra Palace (the original branch line station, not the current
one which used to be named Wood Green). The LNER would have continued
to operate freight services to High Barnet and Edgware (as indeed BR
did until the 1960s).

So if there was no long term intention for LNER to serve the station, I'm
surprised that the 1930s rebuild included an LNER logo built into the
structure.

On 28 Jan, 23:00, Stephen Furley wrote:
On 28 Jan, 22:16, Graeme Wall wrote:

I can't see a removed logo...

That sort of 'eye' shaped thing used to contain the LNER logo. *I
can't seem to find a photo of it at the moment.

Found a picture of one elsewhere. At first I thought it was a
Photoshop job, but maybe it is genuine; The Great Central Line became
LNER, so they would have served Harrow on the Hill. I didn't know
there had ever been a LNER logo at that station though.

On 28 Jan, 23:19, Stephen Furley wrote:
On 28 Jan, 23:00, Stephen Furley wrote:

On 28 Jan, 22:16, Graeme Wall wrote:

I can't see a removed logo...

That sort of 'eye' shaped thing used to contain the LNER logo. *I
can't seem to find a photo of it at the moment.

Found a picture of one elsewhere. *At first I thought it was a
Photoshop job, but maybe it is genuine; The Great Central Line became
LNER, so they would have served Harrow on the Hill. *I didn't know
there had ever been a LNER logo at that station though.

It's not my day is it; I forgot the link.

http://www.lner.info/forums/new-logo-t1045.html