On Tue, 31 Mar 2009, Mr Thant wrote:

On 31 Mar, 13:55, Abigail Brady wrote:
I'm not even sure there would have been an ELLX project in this case.

The previous extension proposal to Cambridge Heath might have happened
instead.

(which would also allow the route across Bishopsgate Goods Yard to be
used to divert some Liverpool Street trains to Broad Street)

What was this proposal? All i can find is a bit on the CULG page for
the ELL, where Clive sayeth:

At Spitalfields a branch turned off into extensive sidings underneath the
corresponding GER coal depot (and with a vertical hoist linking them);
there were plans to tunnel to meet the GER line at Cambridge Heath, but
these never came to fruition and the tunnel dead-ended only 350m from the
junction.

But that doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me. I don't see how any
branch going to Spitalfields could have anything to do with Cambridge
Heath.

tom

--
People don't want nice. People want London. -- Al

On 31/3/09 23:07, in article , "Jack
Taylor" wrote:

tim..... wrote:
"zen83237" wrote in message
...

And what about the trains that used to come from the Great Northern
lines.

These were removed before my time. My Baker from the period just
before BS was closed, shows this route as not possible at that time.

Really? It would still be possible today. Head up the GN, turn left at
Finsbury Park, up Canonbury curve, then east down the North London line and
branch off at Dalston up to Broad Street.

That's why they were proposing Finsbury Park as a terminus for some ELLX
services at one time.

The line was closed for a time while the track through the tunnel was
singled to provide clearance for electrification, but I can't remember when
this was.

On Mar 31, 11:21*pm, Tom Anderson wrote:
But that doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me. I don't see how any
branch going to Spitalfields could have anything to do with Cambridge
Heath.

If you look on Google Maps just south of Selby Street (north of
Whitechapel station) there's a bit where the cutting widens to the
east, which was the junction for Spitalfields goods yard. If you
scroll up a bit you can see a chunky curve of disused viaduct that led
the GER depot.

The definition of "Spitalfields" must have been wider in the past,
though Spitalfields City Farm is not far from the goods yard site.

U

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

On Mar 31, 1:55*pm, Abigail Brady wrote:

On Mar 31, 1:07*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

How might the LO & ELL changes have panned out then. Would the ELLX
project still have connected into the Kingsland viaduct and run
round to Highbury, after all it's four tracks wide, or just run
up to terminate and interchange at Dalston.

I'm not even sure there would have been an ELLX project in this case.

My thinking exactly. My reading of the inception of the ELLX scheme
was that that an opportunity was seen to connect an underutilised line
- the ELL - up with the disused trackbed between Broad Street and
Dalston Junction (and beyond), as well as reconnect it with the
mainline at the southern end (i.e. New Cross Gate), along with (re)
connecting it to the South London Line (i.e. phase 2 to Clapham Jn).

Thankfully that opportunity - which could so easily have become
another fantasy project such as those which have been discussed on
here many times before - was grasped and is being realised. I must say
I'm somewhat amazed this actually happened!

I wonder if anyone here remembers the Orbital London Rail promotion
railtour which started from Broad Street some time in the 1970s, I'd guess
late 1974 or early 1975?

It was the only railtour I've ever been on where the train started with
brightly coloured balloons tied to the lamp brackets and door handles! I
have a couple of pictures I must scan some time.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 22:50:30 +0100
Paul Corfield wrote:


On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 13:07:25 +0100, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

wrote:
Nick Catford seems to have added a shed load more photos of broad
street as was. Quite interesting not just for the railway itself but
because you can see the slow change in the City as the towers go up
during the 70s.

If Broad street was still open today would it be a useful way of
relieving passenger and train congestion on other lines and termini?

Doubtful - it was far too big for the traffic using it. The North London

Certainly seems underused. Though what surprises me is they closed the whole
branch. I don't see why they didn't keep perhaps a single platform low cost
low maintenance station a few hundred metres back up the line after the main
station had been demolished to make way for Broadgate.

B2003

On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 09:18:10 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Certainly seems underused. Though what surprises me is they closed the whole
branch. I don't see why they didn't keep perhaps a single platform low cost
low maintenance station a few hundred metres back up the line after the main
station had been demolished to make way for Broadgate.

Running it into Liverpool St made more sense, as they indeed did,
though this didn't for whatever reasons prove successful.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 23:07:02 +0100
"Jack Taylor" wrote:
That's why they were proposing Finsbury Park as a terminus for some ELLX
services at one time.

A missed opportunity if ever there was one. It could have provided a cross
platform link for FCC & ECML passengers to docklands and the south london
lines and vice verca. Its utterly absurd this wasn't forced through.

B2003

In article , aooy65
@dsl.pipex.com says...
On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 13:07:25 +0100, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

wrote:
Nick Catford seems to have added a shed load more photos of broad
street as was. Quite interesting not just for the railway itself but
because you can see the slow change in the City as the towers go up
during the 70s.

If Broad street was still open today would it be a useful way of
relieving passenger and train congestion on other lines and termini?

Doubtful - it was far too big for the traffic using it. The North London
Line was nowhere near as popular then as it is now and I doubt there was
any expansionist appetite anywhere in BR. Again while Liverpool Street
was busy commuting was not at the levels seen in recent years.

Looking at the photos on Boltar's link does anyone know where the war
memorial went to? I think I only used Broad Street a handful of times
despite walking past it many times when I was at City Poly on Moorgate.


Don't know where the memorial went, sadly don't even remember it.

I would like to know however what became of a model locomotive in a
glass case, the coupling rods of which moved once a penny was inserted
into a slot. I assume this benefited a railway charity. It was a 4-4-0
tank engine.

As a young person I was always fascinated by the Richmond trains with
their barred windows so that decapitations didn't occur in the tunnel at
Hampstead Heath.

On Apr 1, 10:23*am, (Neil Williams)
wrote:

On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 09:18:10 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
Certainly seems underused. Though what surprises me is they closed the whole
branch. I don't see why they didn't keep perhaps a single platform low cost
low maintenance station a few hundred metres back up the line after the main
station had been demolished to make way for Broadgate.

Running it into Liverpool St made more sense, as they indeed did,
though this didn't for whatever reasons prove successful.


Running via Hackney and the Graham Road curve added time and distance
to the journey. Additionally by the sounds of it BR weren't very keen
to make this service successful.

On Apr 1, 10:27*am, wrote:
On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 23:07:02 +0100

"Jack Taylor" wrote:
That's why they were proposing Finsbury Park as a terminus for some ELLX
services at one time.

A missed opportunity if ever there was one. It could have provided a cross
platform link for FCC & ECML passengers to docklands and the south london
lines and vice verca. Its utterly absurd this wasn't forced through.


There is a fundamental issue with this though that many people simply
fail to comprehend. IIRC this stretch of the NLL is currently three
tracks, but it will become four tracks. The ELLX trains will run on
the southern pair of tracks at this point, with the NLL passenger
trains and freight on the northern pair. The Canonbury Curve tunnel is
to the north of the NLL alignment - if ELLX trains were to run up to
Canonbury they'd have to cross the NLL passenger and freight tracks on
the level, i.e. a massively conflicting movement.

The only way to deal with it would be some sort of grade separated
junction to take the ELLX trains over the NLL tracks to the Canonbury
curve. That's *far* easier said than done - the NLL alignment here is
in a cutting surrounded by housing on both sides, and there's a bridge
carrying Highbury Grove to contend with as well. I suppose a grade
separated junction might have been possible in the stretch between
Wallace Road and Highbury Grove where the cutting is a bit wider (this
is where Canonbury station is sited). Nonetheless it'd be far from an
easy task.

Anyway, you speak about it being "utterly absurd this wasn't forced
through" - well the fact the whole ELLX project has actually happened
is amazing enough. Trying to add a very expensive extra such as a
grade separated junction here was likely seen as being beyond the
realms of the possible.