On Jun 9, 2:25*pm, "Peter Masson" wrote:
wrote

Southeastern seem to have taken matters into their own hands in quite
a forceful way:

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/95

Southeastern has agreed to accept valid tickets for the Underground -
both paper tickets and Oyster Pay As You Go - on services that mirror
Tube routes on our network.

So during the strike we will accept London Underground passes
(including Oyster PAYG) during the strike on the following routes
only:

Brixton to Victoria
Elephant and Castle to Blackfriars / City Thameslink
London Cannon Street / Waterloo East / Charing Cross

------
Unless either TfL, or SWT and Southeastern, change their advice (and in the
case of TfL, publicise any changes very clearly) I can foresee big
arguments.

I couldn't agree more. The TfL website is still showing the following
wording:

"National Rail - Oyster Pay As You Go will be accepted on all National
Rail journeys within Greater London on Wednesday and Thursday - just
show your Oyster card at the station gates."

with less than two hours to go until the strike begins.

By contrast with Southeastern, Southern have adopted the 'let TfL sort
it out' approach - I finally managed to find this on their website (at
http://www.southernrailway.com/news....&u=index.php):

"LONDON UNDERGROUND STRIKE ACTION - LATEST

June 2nd 2009

The RMT union has announced strike action on the London Underground
network to commence at 18.59 hours on Tuesday 9 June through to 18.58
hours on Thursday 11 June 2009.

Transport for London has advised that it will do all it can to keep
customers fully informed of the impact of this action but is advising
customers to check its Live Travel News for updates before travelling,
and to use its Journey Planner to plan a possible alternative route.

Travel plans for the strike have been announced by the Mayor of
London. for more details, please go to the Transport for London
website."

SWT are taking a similar tack to Southeastern
(http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/SWTrains/News/
_londonundergroundstrike.htm):

"During this time South West Trains will be accepting all Transport
for London tickets on certain SWT services within the Travelcard
boundary. The services are Feltham to Clapham Junction and Waterloo
via Kew Bridge or via Richmond; and Wimbledon to Clapham Junction and
Waterloo. This includes PAYG and paper tickets.

We shall not be accepting PAYG or paper London Underground tickets at
any other SWT station."

It's going to be an interesting couple of days.

On Jun 9, 2:25*pm, "Peter Masson" wrote:

wrote

Southeastern seem to have taken matters into their own hands in quite
a forceful way:

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/95

Southeastern has agreed to accept valid tickets for the Underground -
both paper tickets and Oyster Pay As You Go - on services that mirror
Tube routes on our network.

So during the strike we will accept London Underground passes
(including Oyster PAYG) during the strike on the following routes
only:

Brixton to Victoria
Elephant and Castle to Blackfriars / City Thameslink
London Cannon Street / Waterloo East / Charing Cross

------
Unless either TfL, or SWT and Southeastern, change their advice (and in the
case of TfL, publicise any changes very clearly) I can foresee big
arguments.

Absolutely agreed.

What about a passenger whose normal route, using PAYG because he only
travels two or three days a week, so a season ticket is uneconomic, is bus
to North Greenwich then Jubilee Line to Bond Street. A sensible alternative
route would be Southeastern from Charlton to Victoria, changing at
Blackheath, then bus or walk. IMHO that route mirrors the passenger's normal
tube route, and even on their restricted view, Southeastern should allow it.

Also agreed.

I can understand why the TOCs are wary - they don't want to be swamped
with 'freeloaders' simply enjoying/ taking advantage of a couple of
days of totally free rail travel across London by simply waving their
Oyster card around, especially given the extra load they'd be handling
on strike days anyway.

However the situation with regards to the contradictory information is
all pretty silly. I can't see any penalty fares that might be issued
as standing up at all. I suppose the TOCs may simply be trying to
dissuade people from 'taking the mickey'. They've got their bottom
line to look at as well of course.

On Jun 9, 3:55*pm, wrote:

On Jun 9, 3:36*pm, Clive Page wrote:

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/95

Southeastern has agreed to accept valid tickets for the Underground –
both paper tickets and Oyster Pay As You Go – on services that mirror
Tube routes on our network.

So during the strike we will accept London Underground passes
(including Oyster PAYG) during the strike on the following routes
only:

Brixton to Victoria
Elephant and Castle to Blackfriars / City Thameslink
London Cannon Street / Waterloo East / Charing Cross

This should say "London Bridge to Cannon...". Some muppet in SN's PR
department has managed to drag and drop "Bridge to" into the next
paragraph down.

Shabby. Though the blame lies with Southeastern's PR department, not
Southern's.


Outside these routes the usual ticket restrictions and Penalty Fares
will be applicable as normal.

Hmm. *I need to get from Luton to central London on Thursday - I'm
planning to go from Luton to London Bridge (valid on a ticket to "London
Thameslink") and then get a train to Charing Cross. *Is this a
Southeastern route? * I have an Oyster card I can show, but I don't see
how they can charge it unless there are readers both on platforms 5/6 at
London Bridge and the exits at Charing Cross. *As far as I recall, they
don't yet exist at either, does anyone know?

There are certainly Oyster readers on the exists at Charing Cross;
what their PAYG status will be tonight/tomorrow/Thursday I don't know.

No go - they are for checking season Travelcards loaded on Oyster
*only*. There are currently *no* PAYG routes from Charing Cross. And
they can't magic this up overnight either.

And there are certainly validators by the platforms that FCC use at
London Bridge.

Solely to handle Thameslink traffic - Oyster PAYG being valid on
Thameslink between West Hampstead and London Bridge/ Elephant & Castle
*only*.

This page and the PDF map it links to make this clear:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/5823.aspx


London Bridge to Waterloo East/Charing Cross is a pretty clear parallel
to a tube journey, I'd have said.

Yup indeed.

Agreed.

On Jun 9, 3:58*pm, wrote:

On Jun 9, 3:36*pm, Clive Page wrote:

In message
,
writes

Southeastern seem to have taken matters into their own hands in quite
a forceful way:

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/95

Southeastern has agreed to accept valid tickets for the Underground –
both paper tickets and Oyster Pay As You Go – on services that mirror
Tube routes on our network.

So during the strike we will accept London Underground passes
(including Oyster PAYG) during the strike on the following routes
only:

Brixton to Victoria
Elephant and Castle to Blackfriars / City Thameslink
London Cannon Street / Waterloo East / Charing Cross
Outside these routes the usual ticket restrictions and Penalty Fares
will be applicable as normal.

Hmm. *I need to get from Luton to central London on Thursday - I'm
planning to go from Luton to London Bridge (valid on a ticket to "London
Thameslink") and then get a train to Charing Cross. *Is this a
Southeastern route? * I have an Oyster card I can show, but I don't see
how they can charge it unless there are readers both on platforms 5/6 at
London Bridge and the exits at Charing Cross. *As far as I recall, they
don't yet exist at either, does anyone know?

London Bridge to Waterloo East/Charing Cross is a pretty clear parallel
to a tube journey, I'd have said.

It's on the list I've quoted above, so I can't imagine that one being
controversial. Perhaps print off that page from the Southeastern
website?

The lack of validators isn't relevant in this case as the guidance
everywhere seems to be 'just show your Oyster at the gateline rather
than touching it [and you won't get charged anything]'.

For the record, both Charing Cross and London Bridge do have Oyster-
enabled gates, but at the moment they are the 'dumb' sort of readers
that just check whether a valid season is loaded on the Oyster in
question (rather than handling the complexities of PAYG).

Correct with regards to the readers on the automatic gates. Note that
Oyster PAYG is valid on the FCC Thameslink route between West
Hampstead and London Bridge/ Elephant & Castle, but at London Bridge
this requires one to touch-in or out on the standalone Oyster readers
on the Thameslink platforms and then you have to go and ask to be let
out the side gate after explaining that you've used PAYG on Thameslink
- the gates will not open for you.

On Jun 9, 4:04*pm, wrote:

On Jun 9, 2:25*pm, "Peter Masson" wrote:

wrote

Southeastern seem to have taken matters into their own hands in quite
a forceful way:

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/95

Southeastern has agreed to accept valid tickets for the Underground -
both paper tickets and Oyster Pay As You Go - on services that mirror
Tube routes on our network.

So during the strike we will accept London Underground passes
(including Oyster PAYG) during the strike on the following routes
only:

Brixton to Victoria
Elephant and Castle to Blackfriars / City Thameslink
London Cannon Street / Waterloo East / Charing Cross

------
Unless either TfL, or SWT and Southeastern, change their advice (and in the
case of TfL, publicise any changes very clearly) I can foresee big
arguments.

I couldn't agree more. The TfL website is still showing the following
wording:

"National Rail - Oyster Pay As You Go will be accepted on all National
Rail journeys within Greater London on Wednesday and Thursday - just
show your Oyster card at the station gates."

with less than two hours to go until the strike begins.

By contrast with Southeastern, Southern have adopted the 'let TfL sort
it out' approach - I finally managed to find this on their website (at
[mangled URL - see original post] ):

"LONDON UNDERGROUND STRIKE ACTION - LATEST

June 2nd 2009

The RMT union has announced strike action on the London Underground
network to commence at 18.59 hours on Tuesday 9 June through to 18.58
hours on Thursday 11 June 2009.

Transport for London has advised that it will do all it can to keep
customers fully informed of the impact of this action but is advising
customers to check its Live Travel News for updates before travelling,
and to use its Journey Planner to plan a possible alternative route.

Travel plans for the strike have been announced by the Mayor of
London. for more details, please go to the Transport for London
website."

SWT are taking a similar tack to Southeastern
( [mangled URL - see original post] ):

"During this time South West Trains will be accepting all Transport
for London tickets on certain SWT services within the Travelcard
boundary. The services are Feltham to Clapham Junction and Waterloo
via Kew Bridge or via Richmond; and Wimbledon to Clapham Junction and
Waterloo. This includes PAYG and paper tickets.

We shall not be accepting PAYG or paper London Underground tickets at
any other SWT station."

It's going to be an interesting couple of days.

Indeed, though given the pretty unambiguous message that's come from
TfL I doubt any of the TOCs will even try and issue penalty fares.

Who's going to be the guinea pig and try and make journeys from
Surbiton, East Croydon and Bromley South holding only an Oyster card
loaded with a little PAYG credit then?!

Peter Masson wrote:

------
Unless either TfL, or SWT and Southeastern, change their advice (and in
the case of TfL, publicise any changes very clearly) I can foresee big
arguments.
What about a passenger whose normal route, using PAYG because he only
travels two or three days a week, so a season ticket is uneconomic, is
bus to North Greenwich then Jubilee Line to Bond Street. A sensible
alternative route would be Southeastern from Charlton to Victoria,
changing at Blackheath, then bus or walk. IMHO that route mirrors the
passenger's normal tube route, and even on their restricted view,
Southeastern should allow it.

Peter.



BBCTravelWatch (via Twitter) are pretty adamant that TfL are sticking to
the 'valid all over' line:

'#Strike: One hour folks... spoke to TfL over the oyster PAYG issue;
they say SWT and Southeastern's info is out of date oyster WILL be taken'

So there you are. If you get caught, refer the bill to TfL. I'm
half-tempted to take the day off and go riding.

Tom

On Jun 9, 4:23*pm, Mizter T wrote:

, but at London Bridge
this requires one to touch-in or out on the standalone Oyster readers
on the Thameslink platforms and then you have to go and ask to be let
out the side gate after explaining that you've used PAYG on Thameslink
- the gates will not open for you.-


Is that right ) I did not know that. I've previously had a PAYG
Oyster and now have a staff free Oyster but I don't recall ever
needing to use either at LB.


--
Nick

On Jun 9, 6:10*pm, Tom Barry wrote:

Peter Masson wrote:
------
Unless either TfL, or SWT and Southeastern, change their advice (and in
the case of TfL, publicise any changes very clearly) I can foresee big
arguments.
What about a passenger whose normal route, using PAYG because he only
travels two or three days a week, so a season ticket is uneconomic, is
bus to North Greenwich then Jubilee Line to Bond Street. A sensible
alternative route would be Southeastern from Charlton to Victoria,
changing at Blackheath, then bus or walk. IMHO that route mirrors the
passenger's normal tube route, and even on their restricted view,
Southeastern should allow it.


BBCTravelWatch (via Twitter) are pretty adamant that TfL are sticking to
the 'valid all over' line:

'#Strike: One hour folks... spoke to TfL over the oyster PAYG issue;
they say SWT and Southeastern's info is out of date oyster WILL be taken'

So there you are. *If you get caught, refer the bill to TfL. *I'm
half-tempted to take the day off and go riding.


Interesting, thanks. Funnily enough I was going to start an entirely
new thread about BBC London's travel updates on Twitter, which I
stumbled across recently. Afraid I'm rather disparaging about the
whole Twitter malarkey, but nonetheless this is something that could
potentially be useful - though I'm not sure whether one really wants a
travel news text message every 10 minutes!

The "BBCTravelAlert" Twitter 'feed' can however be seen via the web
here (with a nice old photo of a Routemaster in the old Victoria bus
station as a background):
http://twitter.com/bbctravelalert

spotted this on FCC

Note: Some PAYG customers using FCC services to make journeys on these
'additional' PAYG routes will not be able to correctly 'touch in' or
'touch out' due to some FCC stations within the London Travelcard area
not having Oyster validators.

To prevent PAYG customers being charged for an incomplete journey in
these instances, the Oyster system will be set up to automatically
complete any journey starting or ending at a Zone 1 station where the
customer touches in/out. The charge made will be based on a journey
between the customer’s 'usual' start/finish station and the Zone 1
station where they touched in/out:

e.g. a PAYG customer who normally travels to/from Hendon Central to St
Pancras International will be charged for a PAYG journey from Hendon
Central to/from Zone 1.

Important note: this automatic completion process does not always work
and PAYG customers are advised that they may incur an incomplete
charge of £4 or £5. TfL are planning automatic refunds of any
incomplete charges incurred in Zone 1 on the days of industrial
action. If you have a query about the amount you have been charged or
you haven’t received an automatic refund within a week, please contact
the Oyster helpline on 0845 330 9876.


What if you don't have a "normal" journey?!

On Jun 9, 6:31*pm, wrote:

On Jun 9, 4:23*pm, Mizter T wrote:

, but at London Bridge
this requires one to touch-in or out on the standalone Oyster readers
on the Thameslink platforms and then you have to go and ask to be let
out the side gate after explaining that you've used PAYG on Thameslink
- the gates will not open for you.-

Is that right ) I did not know that. I've previously had a PAYG
Oyster and now have a staff free Oyster but I don't recall ever
needing to use either at LB.


Yes, 'tis true. To be honest it's actually fairly sensible - the
number of passengers who specifically enter London Bridge station from
the street to use Thameslink to get to stations on the Thameslink core
route must be fairly small - for St Pancras, Kentish Town and West
Hampstead then the tube from LB is the natural choice, which leaves
Blackfriars, City Thameslink and Farringdon - I'd say only for the
latter journey does Thameslink really make sense (for the former two
I'd go with the District/Circle from Blackfriars or Mansion House -
though Blackfriars LU is of course shut now, so perhaps Thameslink
might sort of make sense).

I'd think it more likely that those using Oyster PAYG on the
Thameslink core from/to London Bridge are interchanging there with
other mainline services, so never have to negotiate the LB gateline
situation whatsoever during their journey.

*If* the main gatelines at London Bridge were to be enabled for Oyster
PAYG then there would be an enormous number of people erroneously
thinking they can use their Oyster cards (in PAYG mode) to travel on
trains south of the river - this would lead to mass confusion and lots
of ticketless travel. Better then that the few Oyster PAYG-using
Thameslink passengers are inconvenienced than causing mass problems
elsewhere.

Of course eventually this anomaly will disappear once PAYG gets
universal acceptance across NR on London. Which will happen, in a
distant and much promised land called the future. Oh, and on strike
days, when it seems you get to travel for free merely by brandishing
an Oyster card!