These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

In message , at 11:18:14 on Mon, 27
Jul 2009, Tom Barry remarked:
Zebra crossings and box junctions should be redesigned so that the
lanes are clearly marked through them, and it should be made an
offence to change lane on a box junction or zebra crossing (with
public information films to explain why the change).
Costly and time consuming. Why not just use a more suitable bus?

Show us your working out - you need to do the roadwork *once*,

And getting the new provisions into a Transport Act, and all the
publicity, and the enforcement costs (in perpetuity).

you need to pay the extra cost of less cost-effective buses *every year
forever*.

But there's also an immediate cost saving from the shorter buses because
of the reduced congestion at these particular junctions.

By your logic you shouldn't put in bus lanes, either, since you're
discounting the upside of providing a better bus service in any
cost/benefit calculation.

Bus lanes *only* make sense if they have a positive cost-benefit. But
what's needed here is a study of whether the alleged extra cost of
shorter buses exceeds the costs of the measures you suggest.
--
Roland Perry

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rearends round our corners for the final time.
 

On Jul 26, 11:34*pm, Andy wrote:
On Jul 26, 11:06*pm, "Ian F." wrote:

"Bruce" wrote in message

.. .

I admit to having an inbuilt patholgocial hatred of cyclists who
disobey the rules of the road, so I'm as guilty as anyone. *But I do
think that the bendy buses have been vilified for a lot of problems
that they don't cause.

I hate them for the one major problem they *do* cause - fare-dodging!

Well, they don't cause the fare-dodging. Facilitate it maybe, but the
it is the fare-dodgers that cause the fare-dodging.

Pedantry aside, surely the solution to discouraging fare-dodging is to
increase inspections, not to change the bus?

I don't suppose anyone knows how the statistics compare for fare-
dodging on bendy buses vs Tramlink or the DLR, where it's also easy to
board without a ticket?

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rearends round our corners for the final time.
 

David Cantrell wrote:
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 02:34:11PM +0000, wrote:

Ie perfectly servicable vehicles are about to be mothballed for no good
reason other than a bunch of whining idiot cyclists and a grandstanding
politician.

Don't forget the people who voted for him.

Don't forget the lies about 'many cyclists killed every year'. People
voted for him based on that kind of crap.

Boris esssentially had two choices - the brave one of admitting he was
wrong and committing to a case-by-case analysis of bus routes based on
objective criteria (fare evasion, junction blocking, boarding time,
cost) or the cowardly one of pretending he was telling the truth and
scrapping them all without consultation* or debate. We know what kind
of man he is now.

Tom

* That's not entirely true, TfL did consult, and then ignored it despite
even Westminster Council accepting that bendies made sense on the Red
Arrows.

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rearends round our corners for the final time.
 

Martin Deutsch wrote:
On Jul 26, 11:34 pm, Andy wrote:
On Jul 26, 11:06 pm, "Ian F." wrote:

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
I admit to having an inbuilt patholgocial hatred of cyclists who
disobey the rules of the road, so I'm as guilty as anyone. But I do
think that the bendy buses have been vilified for a lot of problems
that they don't cause.
I hate them for the one major problem they *do* cause - fare-dodging!
Well, they don't cause the fare-dodging. Facilitate it maybe, but the
it is the fare-dodgers that cause the fare-dodging.

Pedantry aside, surely the solution to discouraging fare-dodging is to
increase inspections, not to change the bus?

I don't suppose anyone knows how the statistics compare for fare-
dodging on bendy buses vs Tramlink or the DLR, where it's also easy to
board without a ticket?

Or indeed on Routemasters in the old days, where when packed it was
perfectly easy to dodge, apparently, not least because it could easily
have been impossible to buy a ticket in the time available.

We do know that fare evasion dropped sharply on Overground
post-Silverlink and before that on the Underground when Oyster and
gating came in, so it's likely that on the transport network as a whole
fare evasion is rather lower than it was a few years ago. I have to say
I don't consider fare evasion alone as sufficient reason to scrap them,
not least because it nowhere near pays for the extra cost of less
efficient buses, so you end up not being able to do something socially
useful elsewhere in the city.

Tom

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rearends round our corners for the final time.
 

On Sun, 26 Jul 2009, MIG wrote:

Never mind class or party politics; what about "I don't like to have a
totally unsuitable vehicle blocking the pedestrian crossings, forcing me
to risk my life to get across the road"?

That's a problem with the drivers, not the buses, and is not restricted to
bendies, although of course it's worse with them. Are there any real
problems with the bendies which are intrinsic to the bus itself?

tom

--
I know thats not really relevant but I've just typed the words and my
backspace key doesn't work. -- phorenzik

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rearends round our corners for the final time.
 

Has anyone been on the 507 today, especially during the rush? What's
it been like and is the increase in number of buses actually causing
more congestion?

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rearends round our corners for the final time.
 

On 27 July, 13:21, Tom Barry wrote:
David Cantrell wrote:
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 02:34:11PM +0000, wrote:

Ie perfectly servicable vehicles are about to be mothballed for no good
reason other than a bunch of whining idiot cyclists and a grandstanding
politician.

Don't forget the people who voted for him.

Don't forget the lies about 'many cyclists killed every year'. *People
voted for him based on that kind of crap.

Boris esssentially had two choices - the brave one of admitting he was
wrong and committing to a case-by-case analysis of bus routes based on
objective criteria (fare evasion, junction blocking, boarding time,
cost) or the cowardly one of pretending he was telling the truth and
scrapping them all without consultation* or debate. *We know what kind
of man he is now.

Tom

* That's not entirely true, TfL did consult, and then ignored it despite
even Westminster Council accepting that bendies made sense on the Red
Arrows.

If this group is anything to go by, anyone promising to kill all
cyclists would be a cert to win any election.

Maybe people realise that voting for Boris is, in the long term,
voting for cars to replace public transport (and kill plenty of
cyclists). They realised that his apparent pro-cycling tendencies
were just spin.

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rearends round our corners for the final time.
 

Lucas wrote:
Has anyone been on the 507 today, especially during the rush? What's
it been like and is the increase in number of buses actually causing
more congestion?

A couple of tweets earlier mentioned a friend waiting ten minutes and
the bus being crush-loaded, but also that this was par for the course on
the 507 lately. Others commenting on how small the bus was and how few
seats there were. Not seen any indication of bendies still being in use
so it's possible they had all the MECs in service or tried to run it
with whatever they had to avoid embarrassing the Boss.

Tom

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:20:53 +0100
David Cantrell wrote:


On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 02:34:11PM +0000, wrote:

Ie perfectly servicable vehicles are about to be mothballed for no good
reason other than a bunch of whining idiot cyclists and a grandstanding
politician.

Don't forget the people who voted for him.

I voted for him because he was less worse than the rest. But I assumed that
getting rid of bendy buses was just a standard issue electoral attention
grabber which would soon be brushed under the carpet once the cost had been
properly worked out and common sense would prevail. If I'd known at the time
that Boris was a cyclist I would have realised that common sense would be
shot on sight.

B2003

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

wrote in message
On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:20:53 +0100


Don't forget the people who voted for him.

I voted for him because he was less worse than the rest. But I
assumed that getting rid of bendy buses was just a standard issue
electoral attention grabber which would soon be brushed under the
carpet once the cost had been properly worked out and common sense
would prevail. If I'd known at the time that Boris was a cyclist I
would have realised that common sense would be shot on sight.

I don't think it was any secret that he was and is a keen cyclist.

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:45:44 +0100
"Recliner" wrote:
I don't think it was any secret that he was and is a keen cyclist.

I guess political anoraks may have been aware of it but I wasn't.

B2003

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

Paul Corfield wrote:

Well, it was one of his clearest manifesto commitments, so it's fair to
assume at least some of his voters also approved of the idea.

Possibly but how many of them run in Barnet, Bromley, Croydon, Harrow,
Hillingdon, Bexley, Sutton etc? I think the number is a great fat
zero [1].

Well when campaigning for Boris in Tower Hamlets and Newham, we found many
voters who heavily approved of the policy based on their direct experience
of the 25 (and before anyone jumps in, no this wasn't people in the docks
end of the two boroughs but those actually living around the route). Now
some of this may be the general problems the 25 has, but people believe it
was better when it was a double decker, and indeed IMHO on the
Ilford-Stratford section many passengers have shown a clear preference for
the 86. Certainly the idea that the bendy bus is primarily hated by those
who don't have any near them is a myth.

There isn't a universal bendy experience but is the same bus design really
suitable for both Waterloo to Victoria/London Bridge and central London to
outer suburbs?

[1] not entirely certain where Sudbury sits borough wise but the 18
stretches that far so may be more zero.

It's the point where Ealing, Brent and Harrow meet and the name is used in
all three boroughs. Very much the Crystal Palace of north west London.

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rearends round our corners for the final time.
 

On Jul 27, 7:04*pm, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll-
wrote:
Well when campaigning for Boris in Tower Hamlets and Newham, we found many
voters who heavily approved of the policy based on their direct experience
of the 25 (and before anyone jumps in, no this wasn't people in the docks
end of the two boroughs but those actually living around the route). Now
some of this may be the general problems the 25 has, but people believe it
was better when it was a double decker, and indeed IMHO on the
Ilford-Stratford section many passengers have shown a clear preference for
the 86. Certainly the idea that the bendy bus is primarily hated by those
who don't have any near them is a myth.

No - that's only evidence that the idea that the bendy bus is *only*
hated by those who don't use them. It's entirely consistent with the
idea, which is almost certainly the correct one, that most bendy-
haters don't use them but a small proportion do (and indeed, that said
small proportion are blaming the use of bendies for more systemic
problems like 'the bus is full' and 'the bus takes ages...)

There isn't a universal bendy experience but is the same bus design really
suitable for both Waterloo to Victoria/London Bridge and central London to
outer suburbs?

That's certainly what your candidate of choice seems to believe.

(more seriously, it probably is true that although the bendy 25 is a
very good bus for Whitechapel Road, it's less good for outer parts of
Newham. Similarly, the 29's bendy capacity is needed between Warren
Street and Manor House, but again a decker with more seats and less
total capacity would be better once you get to Wood Green.)

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 19:04:13 +0100, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

There isn't a universal bendy experience but is the same bus design really
suitable for both Waterloo to Victoria/London Bridge and central London to
outer suburbs?

Why wouldn't it be (for certain selected routes from central London to
the outer suburbs, not all of them)?

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rearends round our corners for the final time.
 

That's certainly what your candidate of choice seems to believe.

(more seriously, it probably is true that although the bendy 25 is a
very good bus for Whitechapel Road, it's less good for outer parts of
Newham. Similarly, the 29's bendy capacity is needed between Warren
Street and Manor House, but again a decker with more seats and less
total capacity would be better once you get to Wood Green.)

--
John Band
john at johnband dot orgwww.johnband.org

The 29 is awfully busy along the whole route I feel, even after Manor
House it stays incredibly busy; and gets busier even because of the
big gap between Manor House and Turnpike Lane tube stations that is
Harringay.
The problem is simply Green Lanes itself which is ridiculously
congested and always the slowest part of the route, but I can't think
of much of an alternative, given that the only parallel road is also
quite busy (Wightman Rd)

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rearends round our corners for the final time.
 

On 27 July, 20:17, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:34:52 +0100, Tom Barry
wrote:

Lucas wrote:
Has anyone been on the 507 today, especially during the rush? What's
it been like and is the increase in number of buses actually causing
more congestion?

A couple of tweets earlier mentioned a friend waiting ten minutes and
the bus being crush-loaded, but also that this was par for the course on
the 507 lately. *Others commenting on how small the bus was and how few
seats there were. *Not seen any indication of bendies still being in use
so it's possible they had all the MECs in service or tried to run it
with whatever they had to avoid embarrassing the Boss.

There was a sudden surge in deliveries from Coventry yesterday which
meant enough buses were in place today. Evobus hid the buses away from
prying eyes and then made "a mad dash to the finishing line" yesterday.
I suspect London General's staff were just a tad busy yesterday.
--
Paul C

How I laughed today as two packed 507s left Victoria at the same time,
taking up possibly more room than a bendy (nothing else was going to
fit in the gap between the two buses...!) and then remembered that
this is what awaits the 38, (a route I use daily, with very busy
buses, boarded in seconds...) and all because an out of touch Tory
needed some soundbites to get elected. Actually, that wasn't me
laughing, it was me almost crying.

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

In article ,
Paul Corfield wrote:

Why then has TfL gone to
the loony bin if it introduces a bus boarding scheme that means shorter
dwell times at stops?

WHy indeed. Christian Wolmar, whom I have a lot of time for, writes:
'However, it is the bendy bus fiasco that really shows up Boris as
little more than a standard issue Tory playing narrow political
games....I am no great fan of bendy buses which are not objects of great
beauty. But, my god, they do their job efficiently.'

http://www.christianwolmar.co.uk/200...ter-to-tory-po
licies/

And also:

Sharon Grant, Chair, London TravelWatch said: "We have yet to hear a
credible reason for scrapping bendy buses..."

http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/news.php?id=662


It seems extraordinary that one man is walking all over us.

E.

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

In message
, at
21:08:56 on Mon, 27 Jul 2009, eastender
remarked:
Christian Wolmar, whom I have a lot of time for, writes:
'However, it is the bendy bus fiasco that really shows up Boris as
little more than a standard issue Tory playing narrow political
games....I am no great fan of bendy buses which are not objects of great
beauty. But, my god, they do their job efficiently.'

But that's not the point. It's their collateral damage which people are
worried about.
--
Roland Perry

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 21:08:56 +0100, eastender
wrote:

Sharon Grant, Chair, London TravelWatch said: "We have yet to hear a
credible reason for scrapping bendy buses..."

Presumably this is because every time a cyclist tries to talk to her
she stuffs her fingers in her ears and chants "laa laa laa I'm not
listening". Whatever good they may be outside the city centre, in
cramped and narrow streets they are an absolute bloody nightmare.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:


The routemaster was perfect. I always feel somewhat "trapped" on a bus
where the driver has the power to stop me getting off (especially when
stuck in traffic and I'd rather continue on foot).

My word - bet you really hate air travel.

E.

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:


But that's not the point. It's their collateral damage which people are
worried about.

No - it's just pathetic political posturing .

E.

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

In article ,
"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:

Presumably this is because every time a cyclist tries to talk to her
she stuffs her fingers in her ears and chants "laa laa laa I'm not
listening". Whatever good they may be outside the city centre, in
cramped and narrow streets they are an absolute bloody nightmare.

The main danger to cyclists are lorries, not buses, as at least three
ghost bikes near where I live sadly testify.

E.

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:10:32 +0100, eastender
wrote:

The main danger to cyclists are lorries, not buses, as at least three
ghost bikes near where I live sadly testify.

I know that, and I know how to avoid most of the problem, but tat
doesn't change the fact that bendy buses are uniquely unpleasant
things with which to share the road. 18m long, surprisingly rapid
acceleration, and especially the way the articulation works so that if
the driver cuts in too early you end up with the arse end coming
towards you at speed and nowhere to go. I hate them. I might hate
them less if the drivers could bring themselves to wait if there's a
cyclist part way past before they start off, but they don't. There is
no really safe way to get past one of those buggers.

My friend Mr Larrington describes them as a work of Stan, and I
completely agree.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

eastender wrote:

The main danger to cyclists are lorries, not buses, as at
least three ghost bikes near where I live sadly testify.

So that's what those white bikes are!
http://www.ghostbikes.org/london

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

My friend Mr Larrington describes them as a work of Stan, and I
completely agree.

Not Stanley but Livingstone, I presume.

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rearends round our corners for the final time.
 

On 27 July, 22:07, eastender wrote:
In article ,
*Roland Perry wrote:

But that's not the point. It's their collateral damage which people are
worried about.

No - it's just pathetic political posturing .


Politics is only brought into it to dismiss any genuine preferences
people have for one type of bus or another.

For godsake, can't we give that one a rest? The discussion started
long before the idiot Boris picked up on it, and bendy buses will
probably be around longer than he is.

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:25:38 +0100, "Basil Jet"
wrote:

My friend Mr Larrington describes them as a work of Stan, and I
completely agree.

Not Stanley but Livingstone, I presume.

Example:
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.rec.cycling/msg/5b86c6a07ec7955e?hl=en

Edmonton is the tenth circle of Hell (obviously).

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:23:03 +0100, "Basil Jet"
wrote:

So that's what those white bikes are!
http://www.ghostbikes.org/london

Yup. And just for once TfL are doing a decent job of trying to fix
the problem (though without going so far as to rip out the fsking
railings which are a proximal cause in most of these needless deaths).
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/11687.aspx?lid=switcher#beware

And if any of you are cyclists, or thinking of becoming cyclists round
London, I strongly recommend John Franklin's excellent book
Cyclecraft.

Note also that female cyclists are disproportionately involved in
these LGV crushing incidents. It's likely that this is because they
are less assertive on the road and more likely to ride too close to
the edge. There is a big difference between riding defensively and
riding timidly.

Anyway, enough of my hobby horse. Anyone who wants to know more about
best practice for safe cycling round London could do worse than drop
by uk.rec.cycling.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

Offramp wrote in news:603ac8ce-e923-4513-acbe-
:

On 24 July, 23:41, Richard

I feel unusually annoyed about this... They are some of the best buses
ever to be used in London or anywhere else, in my controversial
opinion.

I agree entirely. I think it is odd and very wrong that one man's
fatwa could get rid of them.

He's the Mayor; we elected him.

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

John B wrote in news:85fbe1a1-c492-4868-a841-
:

most bendy-haters don't use them


If they hate them and they have an alternative, why should they use them?

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

In message
, at
21:58:17 on Mon, 27 Jul 2009, eastender
remarked:
The routemaster was perfect. I always feel somewhat "trapped" on a bus
where the driver has the power to stop me getting off (especially when
stuck in traffic and I'd rather continue on foot).

My word - bet you really hate air travel.

In case you hadn't noticed, it's not practical to get off a plane or
train and walk the rest of the way. What I object to with buses is being
stuck in a jam and trapped until the next bus stop with the clock
ticking away.

There *are* equivalents with air travel, which is being forced to wait
for a bus, and until every last person has got on, before being driven
to the airport building a hundred yards away. Of course, if it's raining
they make you walk :)
--
Roland Perry

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

In message
, at
22:07:00 on Mon, 27 Jul 2009, eastender
remarked:
But that's not the point. It's their collateral damage which people are
worried about.

No - it's just pathetic political posturing .

I object to the collateral damage, so that's one person who isn't doing
any political posturing. I expect most people trying to cross the road,
but are blocked by a bendy-bus, are also more interested in the
practical objections.
--
Roland Perry

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

In message , at 22:39:11 on
Mon, 27 Jul 2009, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
remarked:
Note also that female cyclists are disproportionately involved in
these LGV crushing incidents. It's likely that this is because they
are less assertive on the road and more likely to ride too close to
the edge. There is a big difference between riding defensively and
riding timidly.

Without wishing to start a huge sexist debate, it's well known that
females have less well developed spatial awareness. (It's because the
males developed this in order to be successful hunters, which the
females don't generally have to do).
--
Roland Perry

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear
 

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:37:59 -0700 (PDT)
Lucas wrote:
The problem is simply Green Lanes itself which is ridiculously
congested and always the slowest part of the route, but I can't think
of much of an alternative, given that the only parallel road is also
quite busy (Wightman Rd)

Green lanes is only congested because of idiotic traffic light phasing
and people who park in bus stops so the bus stops in the road and blocks
the traffic. Solve those 2 issues and it would flow nicely.

B2003

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:15:15 +0100
"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:
I know that, and I know how to avoid most of the problem, but tat
doesn't change the fact that bendy buses are uniquely unpleasant
things with which to share the road. 18m long, surprisingly rapid
acceleration, and especially the way the articulation works so that if
the driver cuts in too early you end up with the arse end coming
towards you at speed and nowhere to go. I hate them. I might hate
them less if the drivers could bring themselves to wait if there's a
cyclist part way past before they start off, but they don't. There is
no really safe way to get past one of those buggers.

So in other words you're only competant enough to navigate past certain
vehicles on the road. Perhaps you should consider another way of getting
around town?

Tell me , are british commuter cyclists just particularly incompetant and/or
stupid compared to european ones who've been living with bendy buses
for years or are you all - what most people suspect is the case - nothing but
a bunch of tedious whingers?

And no , not many european city centres have off road cycle paths.

B2003

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rearends round our corners for the final time.
 

On Jul 28, 11:10*am, wrote:

Tell me , are british commuter cyclists just particularly incompetant and/or
stupid compared to european ones who've been living with bendy buses
for years or are you all - what most people suspect is the case - nothing but
a bunch of tedious whingers?

I suggest you try riding a bike round some European city centres some
time. The bus routes in major European cities where bendy buses are
common typically run along broad boulevards which are straight or have
wide, sweeping bends. The narrow, twisty streets of London are one of
the main reasons the late lamented Routemaster was originally
developed.
--
Guy

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
 

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:56:18 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:


In message
, at
22:07:00 on Mon, 27 Jul 2009, eastender
remarked:
But that's not the point. It's their collateral damage which people are
worried about.

No - it's just pathetic political posturing .

I object to the collateral damage, so that's one person who isn't doing
any political posturing. I expect most people trying to cross the road,
but are blocked by a bendy-bus, are also more interested in the
practical objections.

Yes , we should ban HGVs too because they can occasionally block pedestrian
crossings and squish cyclists. 7.5 tonners are the way forward!

B2003

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear
 

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 03:16:34 -0700 (PDT)
"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:
I suggest you try riding a bike round some European city centres some
time. The bus routes in major European cities where bendy buses are
common typically run along broad boulevards which are straight or have
wide, sweeping bends. The narrow, twisty streets of London are one of
the main reasons the late lamented Routemaster was originally
developed.

What exactly is narrow and twisty about victoria embankment or oxford street
or the strand or 101 other roads I could mention? All cities have wide roads
and all cities have narrow roads. If you don't think there are narrow and
twisty roads in Paris or Madrid or wherever you've obviously never been there.

B2003

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rearends round our corners for the final time.
 

On 28 July, 11:46, wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:56:18 +0100





Roland Perry wrote:

In message
, at
22:07:00 on Mon, 27 Jul 2009, eastender
remarked:
But that's not the point. It's their collateral damage which people are
worried about.

No - it's just pathetic political posturing .

I object to the collateral damage, so that's one person who isn't doing
any political posturing. I expect most people trying to cross the road,
but are blocked by a bendy-bus, are also more interested in the
practical objections.

Yes , we should ban HGVs too because they can occasionally block pedestrian
crossings and squish cyclists. 7.5 tonners are the way forward!

B2003-

HGVs and bendy buses are intended for different types of road. HGVs
aren't allowed in all the places that bendy buses are, and I don't see
many bendy buses at Felixtowe.

These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear
 

On Jul 28, 11:50*am, wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 03:16:34 -0700 (PDT)
"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:

I suggest you try riding a bike round some European city centres some
time. *The bus routes in major European cities where bendy buses are
common typically run along broad boulevards which are straight or have
wide, sweeping bends. *The narrow, twisty streets of London are one of
the main reasons the late lamented Routemaster was originally
developed.

What exactly is narrow and twisty about victoria embankment or oxford street
or the strand or 101 other roads I could mention? All cities have wide roads
and all cities have narrow roads. If you don't think there are narrow and
twisty roads in Paris or Madrid or wherever you've obviously never been there.

I have never seen a bendy bus on Victoria Embankment. I have seen one
around London Wall. I do not ride along Oxford Street at all, it is
impassable. I did see a bendy bus today as I was riding round Hyde
Park Corner - hard to avoid seeing it in fact as it pulled onto the
roundabout straight into my path. And with 18m of bus that left no
option at all but to stop in the middle of a busy roundabout.

I'm sure they are fine in their place, but central London is not it.
--
Guy