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These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rearends round our corners for the final time.
Tom Anderson wrote:
Axe Greater London, i say. Let's have a mayor of London elected by people who live in London, not some transcluded home counties buffoons who mostly still insist that they live in 'Metropolitan Kent' or some such nonsense. ObLondonFact - the GLC was set up by the Tories including areas which aren't really London partly because the old LCC basically had an inherent Labour majority (which is why Labour bitterly opposed the foundation of the GLC, of course). The GLC was marginal for most of its existence, as, it seems, is the GLA. Tom |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rearends round our corners for the final time.
Tim Woodall wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 15:47:02 +0100, Tom Barry wrote: The dreaded 'common sense' of the selfish individual, as expressed by a) I don't like waiting at traffic lights b) therefore I should be allowed to ignore them c) therefore I shall arrive at my destination faster d) therefore the world is a better place. As opposed to the bendy bus drivers, as expressed by a) I don't like waiting behind a cyclist b) therefore I should be allowed to ignore them c) therefore I will turn left across them before I've even got the articulation of the bus level with them d) therefore the world is a better place. A few facts: 1) No cyclists have ever been killed by a London bendy, as Boris now admits, although he won't admit that he lied during the campaign about this. 2) Cycling has increased in London quite dramatically (north of 100% now) *over exactly the same period bendy buses have been operating* (since 2002), suggesting that people aren't generally being put off by sharing the few London roads that actually have bendies on. 3) The KSI rate for cyclists in London has stayed remarkably constant despite far more miles being ridden as cycling has taken off. 4) Bendies can kill people in ways double deckers can't. That there aren't any examples of this concerning cyclists is very welcome, but nevertheless I accept the point. However... 5) ...double deckers can kill people in ways bendies can't, and there *are* examples of this, two in the last year*, which unaccountably don't get reams of fearmongering coverage in the papers. Odd, that. Obviously DDs operate more miles than bendies, but that brings us to... 6) ...even by the official TfL statistic of 36% more cyclist collisions for bendies against rigids, once your replacement rigid service goes over 36% more mileage you're increasing the risk to cyclists *even using Boris Johnson's own justification* Actually, on point 6 the off-peak mileage for the rigid 38, for example, is the same as the existing service since the frequency is unchanged and therefore the risk to cyclists off-peak is reduced. Unfortunately, by the Met's statistics most cyclist road collisions happen at peak times, as you might expect, so the net effect is likely to be a greater risk at peak times when there are more potential victims and the full bus PVR is in operation. I'm sufficiently convinced that the risk isn't so high as to cause piles of dead cyclists all over London since bus/cyclist fatalities are thankfully rare in London despite the massive increase in both bus use and cycling in recent years. Tom * http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7410203.stm and http://www.thisiscroydontoday.co.uk/...l/article.html |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear
"Marc" wrote in message
... 1 lorry mount a kerb a corner 1 bus splash pedestrians 1 taxi driver stopping on the zigzags of a zebra crossing 1 Private hire vehicle turning right at a "Buses only" right turn 1 post man parken on a brow of hill 1 police car in a yellow box junction. And a partridge in a pear tree? ;-) Ian |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rearends round our corners for the final time.
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:59:42 +0100, Tom Barry
wrote: Just zis Guy, you know? wrote: On Jul 28, 11:10 am, wrote: Tell me , are british commuter cyclists just particularly incompetant and/or stupid compared to european ones who've been living with bendy buses for years or are you all - what most people suspect is the case - nothing but a bunch of tedious whingers? I suggest you try riding a bike round some European city centres some time. The bus routes in major European cities where bendy buses are common typically run along broad boulevards which are straight or have wide, sweeping bends. What, like the Uxbridge Road, where the 207 bendies will shortly (well, 2011) be replaced by a great many slow-loading single door entry double deckers like we used to have? RMLs having departed in 1987, it's back to the Eighties with Boris, then. As it happens, the 207 is the bendy I encounter most often. There are long stretches of that route where there isn't room for any bus to overtake a cyclist safely without crossing the centreline. The longer buses need longer to pass, meaning there are fewer gaps long enough. Sadly, the drivers often go for it anyway, and cut or squeeze in. The longer length gives more opportunity for the bus to move off while a cyclist is trying to pass, at stops or traffic lights. The extra length is critical at traffic lights - if the lights start to change at the worst possible time you can generally get to the front of a rigid before it moves, but a bendy takes longer to get past. So a bendy at the front of a queue is an obstacle that cannot be filtered past safely (like an HGV) whereas a rigid bus can be filtered past safely. Conclusion: bendy buses make cycle journeys slower and less pleasant. They may not make them much less safe, but only because cyclists mostly choose extra delay rather than extra danger. All that said, if they are a genuine benefit to bus passengers, and there aren't too many of them, I can live with them. But the drivers need to be well-trained (including cycle-awareness), and complaints against them need to be followed up properly. Colin McKenzie -- No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as walking. Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org. |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 04:08:42 -0700 (PDT), "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote: snip I have never seen a bendy bus on Victoria Embankment. I have seen one around London Wall. I do not ride along Oxford Street at all, it is impassable. I did see a bendy bus today as I was riding round Hyde Park Corner - hard to avoid seeing it in fact as it pulled onto the roundabout straight into my path. And with 18m of bus that left no option at all but to stop in the middle of a busy roundabout. I live that the Highway Code recommends getting off the bike and walking round if you feel unsafe. Worth considering. -- Guy Chapman nym-shifted to Lou Knee in order to call someone a ****. He was caught out by the evidence of the IP address he used. He has "implied" that it was not himself - but refuses to answer the simple question: "Guy Chapman: Did you make the Lou Knee post?" He is despicable - on this evidence you should not believe *anything* he says. |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear
"bod43" wrote in message ... On 28 July, 13:24, "Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote: On Jul 28, 1:15 pm, "Basil Jet" wrote: Maybe the bendy routes in London should have been introduced as new routes constrained to follow the wider roads, instead of taking over existing routes like the 73 and expecting bendies to turn from Stoke Newington Church St to Albion Road without causing problems. Yes, that would have been a good idea. I think that getting rid of them all just because they are used badly is every bot as foolish as introducing them into routes where they cause problems. I have commuted daily by bus on a bendy route and they have approximately zero seats. I think that this may have figured into the calculation to phase them out. Nothing at all to do with them being Ken's busses and not Boris' I am sure. =============================== Pure practicalities. The factors a Low floor required (for DDA, buggy brigade, etc) Three axles required therefore six wheel arches, four of which are for twin wheels, and two of which are for wheels that need room to steer. So wheel arches extend some way into floor area, and are too tall to mount seats on top, because of low floor. Two (at least) and often three doors required - can't put seats there. Buggy bay and disabled wheelchair bay - can't put seats there, or, if you do, they will be little folddown ones. Luggage pen if provided - more seat space lost. Engine/ cooling/ etc - at back in corner, more seats lost. The bendy bit - can't put seats there. A bendybus might only have 45-50 seats, same as a singledeck rigid. But it can carry a helluva lot more standing passengers than a rigid and this is the big advantage, so long as the route does not use motorways. (not many bus routes do so, although some do). (Similar considerations on seating apply to double deckers, with yet more seats being lost for space for stairway. A double decker might only have around 24 seats downstairs, but many more than that on the top deck; you may as well use a miniDart for the same route if the passenger profile is mostly OAP who won't go upstairs. Or of they do, it takes them half a day to clamber up and down, whilst the bus is stationary at a busstop.....Perhaps they should fit a Stannah Stair Lift to doubledeckers....) Hope that clarifies why bendies don't have many seats. |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote in message ... On Jul 28, 11:10 am, wrote: Tell me , are british commuter cyclists just particularly incompetant and/or stupid compared to european ones who've been living with bendy buses for years or are you all - what most people suspect is the case - nothing but a bunch of tedious whingers? I suggest you try riding a bike round some European city centres some time. The bus routes in major European cities where bendy buses are common typically run along broad boulevards which are straight or have wide, sweeping bends. The narrow, twisty streets of London are one of the main reasons the late lamented Routemaster was originally developed. -- Guy ==================== Good idea..... you might meet up with some of these... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bi-articulated_bus Two bendy bits per bus!!! Think yourself lucky in UK, with only one bendy bit! :o) |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rearends round our corners for the final time.
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:59:36 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote: In message , at 22:39:11 on Mon, 27 Jul 2009, "Just zis Guy, you know?" remarked: Note also that female cyclists are disproportionately involved in these LGV crushing incidents. It's likely that this is because they are less assertive on the road and more likely to ride too close to the edge. There is a big difference between riding defensively and riding timidly. Without wishing to start a huge sexist debate, it's well known that females have less well developed spatial awareness. (It's because the males developed this in order to be successful hunters, which the females don't generally have to do). But overall, female cyclists have fewer casualties than male. It's just with HGVs that they seem to be more at risk. Colin McKenzie -- No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as walking. Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org. |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
In message , at 08:29:54 on Wed, 29
Jul 2009, Ian remarked: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bi-articulated_bus Two bendy bits per bus!!! They have those in Geneva. http://www.panoramio.com/photo/25005195 -- Roland Perry |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
"Phil W Lee" phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk wrote in message
... I suspect the major difference between London bendy buses and their european counterparts is the standard of driver training. Our drivers here are trained? Are you sure? Ian |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
"Ian F." wrote in message ... "Phil W Lee" phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk wrote in message ... I suspect the major difference between London bendy buses and their european counterparts is the standard of driver training. Our drivers here are trained? Are you sure? Ian Probably much more thoroughly than most cyclists are trained. Ian. |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
"Ian" writes:
"Ian F." wrote in message ... "Phil W Lee" phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk wrote in message ... I suspect the major difference between London bendy buses and their european counterparts is the standard of driver training. Our drivers here are trained? Are you sure? Ian Probably much more thoroughly than most cyclists are trained. Cyclists are allowed to drive buses without training? That sounds like a recipe for disaster -dan |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 08:29:54 +0100, "Ian" wrote:
I suggest you try riding a bike round some European city centres some time. The bus routes in major European cities where bendy buses are common typically run along broad boulevards which are straight or have wide, sweeping bends. The narrow, twisty streets of London are one of the main reasons the late lamented Routemaster was originally developed. Good idea..... you might meet up with some of these... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bi-articulated_bus Two bendy bits per bus!!! Think yourself lucky in UK, with only one bendy bit! Seen those in Switzerland (Geneva and I think maybe also Zurich). The trams are the ones to watch out for there, though. Or rather the tram lines: it takes a little while to work out how to handle tram lines and lanes the first time you encounter them. Guy -- http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:59:36 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote: Note also that female cyclists are disproportionately involved in these LGV crushing incidents. It's likely that this is because they are less assertive on the road and more likely to ride too close to the edge. There is a big difference between riding defensively and riding timidly. Without wishing to start a huge sexist debate, it's well known that females have less well developed spatial awareness. (It's because the males developed this in order to be successful hunters, which the females don't generally have to do). I think it's more down to the assertiveness of riding, and tendency to hug the kerb, but I am only speculating. Guy -- http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 08:29:54 +0100
"Ian" wrote: Good idea..... you might meet up with some of these... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bi-articulated_bus Two bendy bits per bus!!! Think yourself lucky in UK, with only one bendy bit! As ever the europeans are light years ahead of us in public transport. B2003 |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:52:00 +0100, Marc
wrote: No it's not difficult at all! Van drivers Lorry drivers Bus drivers Taxi drivers Private hire drivers Postmen driving vans Police drivers I have witnessed all of the above show "scant regard for the highway code, and complete contempt for other road users, especially pedestrians." Frankly you can include all road users in there, even the pedestrians themselves. I don't know of any group of road users which is characterised by obedience to all the rules. And if you think London cyclists are a rabble you should see Copenhagen some time! Guy -- http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 08:22:48 +0100
"Ian" wrote: (Similar considerations on seating apply to double deckers, with yet more seats being lost for space for stairway. A double decker might only have around 24 seats downstairs, but many more than that on the top deck; you may Something that people forget is that the back of top deck of double deckers is unusable during the times kids are travelling to school because the little sods all congregate there and cause mayhem. For whatever psychological reason they don't cause so much trouble on the lower deck or on single deckers including bendy buses. Also the top deck is unusable for anyone infirm or disabled and gets unpleasently hot anyway in the summer sun. Personally I can't stand the things and its not hard to see why they're not that common around the world in city transport systems. B2003 |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
In message op.uxtkitu9by8eno@sheepdog, at 09:00:19 on Wed, 29 Jul
2009, Colin McKenzie remarked: Without wishing to start a huge sexist debate, it's well known that females have less well developed spatial awareness. (It's because the males developed this in order to be successful hunters, which the females don't generally have to do). But overall, female cyclists have fewer casualties than male. It's just with HGVs that they seem to be more at risk. Which seems to show that while they are more cautious generally, they don't have the spatial awareness to implement that quite as effectively, near HGVs. -- Roland Perry |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear
"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote in message
... Frankly you can include all road users in there, even the pedestrians themselves. I don't know of any group of road users which is characterised by obedience to all the rules. And if you think London cyclists are a rabble you should see Copenhagen some time! Cyclists in Copenhagen are angels compared to the ones I have seen in Beijing and Shanghai. However, they get beaten by cyclists in Caracas and Fortaleza, not to mention Santiago. |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:01:31 +0100
"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote: They don't self steer, they follow a curve. Simple geometry which even cyclists could understand if they bothered to try. Also the cut in on a bendy bus rear section going around a corner is a shed load less than on an HGV. Are you being rude and patronising just for effect? I used to park So which part of "they follow a curve", "simple geometry" and "cut in less than an HGV" is wrong then? 36ft rigid trucks in a car storage yard, reversing down a lane with less than 3ft either side and brand new unregistered Jaguars one side Bully for you. And? and brand new unregistered Porsches the other. I am pretty good at knowing the handling and manoeuvring characteristics of various vehicles. You should watch some time the back end of a bendy bus when the driver changes lanes: it swings in remarkably sharply, and because What , suddenly the laws of physics change and it doesn't follow the expected curve? the thing is so long your options for dealing with it are pretty much limited to braking sharply. This is simply not the case for most Or you could see that its coming and not get yourself into an awkward situation in the first place. But hey, that would just be common sense, something cyclists don't seem to be heavily endowed with... B2003 |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear
In message , at 10:14:55 on
Wed, 29 Jul 2009, "Just zis Guy, you know?" remarked: And if you think London cyclists are a rabble you should see Copenhagen some time! Amsterdam's the worst I've encountered. The cyclists plough through anything and everything regardless. Being a pedestrian is fraught with danger! And more so because cycles claim absolute priority at junctions on shared pathways. -- Roland Perry |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:14:55 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote: On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:52:00 +0100, Marc wrote: No it's not difficult at all! Van drivers Lorry drivers Bus drivers Taxi drivers Private hire drivers Postmen driving vans Police drivers I have witnessed all of the above show "scant regard for the highway code, and complete contempt for other road users, especially pedestrians." Frankly you can include all road users in there, even the pedestrians themselves. I don't know of any group of road users which is characterised by obedience to all the rules. And if you think London cyclists are a rabble you should see Copenhagen some time! Funny, because on a recent trip to Denmark I drove my hire car extensively in and around Copenhagen, and found that the Danish cyclists were remarkably well-disciplined. Certainly nothing like the over-assertive and arrogantly rule-breaking cyclists that make London driving so chaotic and stressful. |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear
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These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:00:56 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote: You bloody what? When you say 'Continental', is the continent in question North America, or have you just lost your marbles? Or, perhaps, never been to a European city? No, you're right, I've never been to a European city. Apart from Brussels. And Amsterdam. And Antwerp, Duffel, Mechelen, den Bosch, Charleroi, Leuven, Köln, Dusseldorf, Paris, Copenhagen, Stockholm, Madrid, Milan and a few others I can't remember off the top of my head. I'm sure there are mediaeval towns in Europe with narrow, winding streets. I don't know how many of these use bendy buses. I do know that the squabble over property rights after the fire more or less put the kibosh on widening the road in London more than a modest amount, and this is acknowledged by Buchanan as a problem in London particularly. Guy -- http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:28:01 +0000 (UTC),
wrote: So which part of "they follow a curve", "simple geometry" and "cut in less than an HGV" is wrong then? The articulation and other characteristics result in the tail moving in much more sharply than is the case for, say, articulated lorries. Plus a Class 1 driver tends to be more aware of that in the first place and not drive as if the vehicle is only as long as the front half. the thing is so long your options for dealing with it are pretty much limited to braking sharply. This is simply not the case for most Or you could see that its coming and not get yourself into an awkward situation in the first place. But hey, that would just be common sense, something cyclists don't seem to be heavily endowed with... For values of "see it coming" that require rear-facing eyes and values of "awkward position" that include riding along a road minding your own business. But hey, I can see that you're not interested in acknowledging any possible problems with bendy buses. I think that was the problem with the woman from transport whatnot, too: if you determinedly write off all criticism as being invalid, then of course you will see no valid criticism. Guy -- http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:58:25 +0100, Bruce
wrote: Funny, because on a recent trip to Denmark I drove my hire car extensively in and around Copenhagen, and found that the Danish cyclists were remarkably well-disciplined. Certainly nothing like the over-assertive and arrogantly rule-breaking cyclists that make London driving so chaotic and stressful. You obviously drive in a different London to the one I work in. London driving is chaotic and stressful mainly because of motor traffic (especially scooters). Cyclists are a non-issue, they are generally off and out of the way long before the motor gridlock eases enough to permit of another six feet of forward movement. I learned to drive in London, round Shepherd's Bush. Guy -- http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:58:25 +0100, Bruce wrote: Funny, because on a recent trip to Denmark I drove my hire car extensively in and around Copenhagen, and found that the Danish cyclists were remarkably well-disciplined. Certainly nothing like the over-assertive and arrogantly rule-breaking cyclists that make London driving so chaotic and stressful. You obviously drive in a different London to the one I work in. London driving is chaotic and stressful mainly because of motor traffic (especially scooters). Cyclists are a non-issue, they are generally off and out of the way long before the motor gridlock eases enough to permit of another six feet of forward movement. I learned to drive in London, round Shepherd's Bush. On the thankfully rare occasiosn that I've driven in London recently those on two wheels are simply not an issue. The only road users who cause problems for others are those who are not taking notice of what's going on around them, and that's not peculiar to London. |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:52:28 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote: The articulation and other characteristics result in the tail moving in much more sharply than is the case for, say, articulated lorries. Rubbish. The steering is arranged to reduce cut in. In other words, to make it cut in far less sharply than an articulated lorry. You seem to have a grave misunderstanding of the dynamics of a bendy bus. The fact that it hardly cuts in compared to an articulated lorry should make it far easier to deal with. Not for you, obviously. ;-) |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:55:01 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote: On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:58:25 +0100, Bruce wrote: Funny, because on a recent trip to Denmark I drove my hire car extensively in and around Copenhagen, and found that the Danish cyclists were remarkably well-disciplined. Certainly nothing like the over-assertive and arrogantly rule-breaking cyclists that make London driving so chaotic and stressful. You obviously drive in a different London to the one I work in. I think you live on a different planet to the rest of us. |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:30:07 +0100, Bruce
wrote: The articulation and other characteristics result in the tail moving in much more sharply than is the case for, say, articulated lorries. Rubbish. The steering is arranged to reduce cut in. In other words, to make it cut in far less sharply than an articulated lorry. That's not how it looks to cyclists overtaken by them. Perhaps the drivers overcompensate by moving in when only the front wheel is past, I don't know - I'm too busy avoiding being wiped out. This is not a problem I *ever* have with artics, but then artic drivers tend to wait until the entire vehicle is past before they even start to pull in. Guy -- http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
Tom Barry wrote:
ObLondonFact - the GLC was set up by the Tories including areas which aren't really London partly because the old LCC basically had an inherent Labour majority (which is why Labour bitterly opposed the foundation of the GLC, of course). In part, but London had significantly expanded since 1888 and the boundaries had not been adjusted to catch up. Defining what is and isn't "really London" is always a mess but there were certainly key parts that were not in the LCC boundaries (e.g. modern day Newham). Calls for an overhaul and expansion of London local government had been made for ages and from sources outside the London Conservatives. The GLC was marginal for most of its existence, as, it seems, is the GLA. The GLC's basic problem was that it didn't have a great deal of responsibilities that really justified its existence. Here's the list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_...of_functio ns The GLC controlled: * Fire * Ambulance * Refuse disposal * Land drainage * Smallholdings * Thames flood preventions * Motor-vehicle and driving licences * Education in Inner London only The GLC and borough councils had joint responsibility for: * Roads * Planning * Housing * Sewage * Traffic Whilst boroughs controlled: * Personal health services * Welfare services * Children's services * Libraries * Refuse collection * Swimming baths * Weights and measures * Food and drugs * Public health inspection * Cemeteries and crematoriums * Collection of rates * Education in Outer London only This is quite a different distribution of powers from the district/county council model and so the result was that the GLC cost an awful lot and didn't really give a great deal back to Londoners. As a result London borough councils (of all parties) resented it and many called for its abolition almost throughout its history. Horace Cutler, GLC Leader 1977-1981 (another sceptic of the GLC's existence), commissioned the Marshall Enquiry into the the GLC's future and the enquiry only narrowly failed to recommend abolition (and Ken Livingstone publicly criticised it for this). It's now become an entrenched myth that Thatcher abolished the GLC purely because of Livingstone, but it would have been abolished anyway because of the opposition of borough councils and the limited services it provided. |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
Colin McKenzie wrote:
But overall, female cyclists have fewer casualties than male. It's just with HGVs that they seem to be more at risk. I'm sure Jeremy Clarkson would have an opinion on that... |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:35:20 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote: On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:30:07 +0100, Bruce wrote: The articulation and other characteristics result in the tail moving in much more sharply than is the case for, say, articulated lorries. Rubbish. The steering is arranged to reduce cut in. In other words, to make it cut in far less sharply than an articulated lorry. That's not how it looks to cyclists overtaken by them. Well, that's how it is. If it looks different to you, you must have a problem with perception. At the very least, you should re-educate yourself as to how bendy buses work, in particular how they negotiate bends in the road, because your faulty perception may be putting you at greater risk. I don't ride a bicycle any more, but I do ride a motorbike, and as with any two wheeled vehicle, defensive riding is the order of the day. A fundamental part of defensive riding is developing a keen awareness of the very different dynamics of the other vehicles you share the road with. Your life depends on it. A bendy bus is a very different animal to a non-articulated bus and it is also very different to an articulated lorry. Overall, it is better to be around than either of those. That's because there are fewer bendy buses than there would be conventional buses on the same route, so fewer hazards - but different hazards, which do require some learning. Bendy buses also cut in far less than articulated lorries, so much less of a hazard when it comes to getting trapped. It's too easy to moan and whine about bendy buses. It takes a little effort to learn how best to deal with them, as with anything new. But the statistics are pretty clear - bendy buses are not only extremely effective at moving large numbers of passengers, but they are also very safe. |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
In article ,
Bruce wrote: It's too easy to moan and whine about bendy buses. It takes a little effort to learn how best to deal with them, as with anything new. But the statistics are pretty clear - bendy buses are not only extremely effective at moving large numbers of passengers, but they are also very safe. Well said. I think no cyclist has been killed (and possibly seriously injured) by a bendy. The three ghost bikes near where I live were all victims of trucks such as cement mixers. I wouldn't mind the bendies going so much if the alternatives were quiet (inside and out), comfortable, smooth and relatively fume free. They aren't, so the bendy going is a big backwards step. E. |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:21:13 +0100, Bruce
wrote: If it looks different to you, you must have a problem with perception. Which I seem to share with many other cyclists. So, given that I am a very experienced cyclist and also a driver with significant experience of driving goods vehicles, perhaps it's not just me. But that would involve being open to the possibility that bendy buses may not be appropriate for some routes in central London, and I do understand that such heresy is not to be tolerated. Guy -- http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:52:28 +0100
"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote: The articulation and other characteristics result in the tail moving in much more sharply than is the case for, say, articulated lorries. FFS , it has the same ratio of front to back section as van, car or rigid pulling a trailer. And the tail doesn't "move in sharply". It moves in in exactly the way anyone with more than a single braincell would expect it to do. I've ridden on enough of them when I used to work in central london to know. But hey, I can see that you're not interested in acknowledging any possible problems with bendy buses. I think that was the problem with The only problems are the poor drivers. Theres nothing wrong with the bus itself. Its an articulated vehicle, nothing more. B2003 |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:31:14 +0100, eastender
wrote: In article , Bruce wrote: It's too easy to moan and whine about bendy buses. It takes a little effort to learn how best to deal with them, as with anything new. But the statistics are pretty clear - bendy buses are not only extremely effective at moving large numbers of passengers, but they are also very safe. Well said. I think no cyclist has been killed (and possibly seriously injured) by a bendy. The three ghost bikes near where I live were all victims of trucks such as cement mixers. I wouldn't mind the bendies going so much if the alternatives were quiet (inside and out), comfortable, smooth and relatively fume free. They aren't, so the bendy going is a big backwards step. Agree 100%. They aren't perfect by any means, and such aspects as driving standards and fare dodging could definitely be improved. But the alternative of more conventional buses with their greater dwell times, costing more and clogging up the traffic far worse than the bendys is just too silly to contemplate, unless your name is Boris. |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:45:10 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote: On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:21:13 +0100, Bruce wrote: If it looks different to you, you must have a problem with perception. Which I seem to share with many other cyclists. I am sure there are a great many cyclists who have absolutely no intention of learning how best to share the road with bendy buses. |
These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.
Ian F. wrote:
"Phil W Lee" phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk wrote in message ... I suspect the major difference between London bendy buses and their european counterparts is the standard of driver training. Our drivers here are trained? Are you sure? I find the standard of bendibus driving to be fine... I assume that only the best drivers are allowed to drive them. It's the driving of the other buses that disappoints. |
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