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Old September 25th 09, 06:49 PM posted to uk.railway,misc.transport.urban-transit,uk.transport.london
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Default Euston Arch to be rebuilt as nightclub


"E27002" wrote in message
...
On Sep 25, 1:16 am, "michael adams" wrote:
"E27002" wrote in message

...

IMHO Macmillan is NOT a hero.

quote

Macmillan served with distinction as a captain in the Grenadier Guards
during the war, [WW1] and was wounded on three occasions. During the
Battle of the Somme, he spent an entire day wounded and lying in a slit
trench with a bullet in his pelvis, reading the classical Greek
playwright Aeschylus in his original language.[13

Publishing]
On his return to London in 1920 he joined the family firm Macmillan
Publishers as a junior partner, remaining with the company until his
appointment to ministerial office in 1940.

{Macmillan was responsible for publishing and championing the work of
the Irish playwright Sean O'Casey)

Housing Minister (1951-1954)
With the Conservative victory in 1951 Macmillan became Minister of Housing
under Churchill, who entrusted Macmillan with fulfilling the latter's conference
promise to build 300,000 houses per year. 'It is a gamble-it will make or mar
your political career,' Churchill said, 'but every humble home will bless your
name if you succeed.'[32] Macmillan achieved the target a year ahead of schedule.[33]

/quote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Macmillan


Thank you. Clearly he was a hero. Unfortunately the latter day of
his government were marred by scandal. Two elections later Wilson was
firmly in control and the UK's decline went into overdrive.


That was hardly MacMillan's fault. The only real scandal I can recall was
that of Profumo an honourable man brought down by an eye for a nice piece
of spare crumpet. It was only George kerb-crawler Wigg sniffing around
and bringing up the Ivanov connection of which Profumo had no knowledge
which cause Profumo to lie to his colleagues and the House.

Macmillan had stepped into the breach on the sudden fall of Eden, another
honourable man brought down by one moment of madness - Suez in his case
when the country needed a leader with gravitas. If anything caused the fall
of Macmillan as much as anything it was his being an easy target for mimicry
starting with Peter Cook. More especially the humilation he suffered at
the hands of the arsehole Cook who directly insulted him from the satge
of "Beyond the Fringe".
You may as well blame Peter Cook and the TWTWTW crowd for the defeat of
the Tories as anyone. While second time round it was Alec Douglas Home
in any case. Again an honourable man but totally unelectable up against Wilson
certainly as compared with other candidates such as Butler, Macleod etc.
But all of whom had made enemies within the Tory party.

So it was all your own fault.



michael adams

....











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Old September 25th 09, 08:31 PM posted to uk.railway,misc.transport.urban-transit,uk.transport.london
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Default Euston Arch to be rebuilt as nightclub

In uk.transport.london message ,
Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:12:11, Paul Terry posted:

I know the plan drawn up in the 1990s showed that buses could get
through, although with very little clearance (500cm each side, I
think). I wonder if that's still possible with the buses in use today?



I doubt whether current buses are anything like ten metres wider than
those of the 1990s. G

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Old September 26th 09, 12:38 AM posted to uk.railway,misc.transport.urban-transit,uk.transport.london
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Default Euston Arch to be rebuilt as nightclub


"Bruce" wrote in message
...

The old Euston had two fine features (the Arch and the Great Hall) but
the rest of it was a disgusting smoke-filled pit that served no-one
well at all. The new Euston is an iconic building that symbolised the
"white heat of technology" of the 1960s and was far more functional
than what it replaced.


The concourse at Euston does work well, and I've read several accounts of
the old Euston station being cramped and poky behind the arch. But some
aspects of the present station are very dated. In particular the taxi rank
is at the bottom of a steep staircase, reflecting an approach of separating
pedestrians and road vehicles on different levels, which was fashionable in
the 1960s. Presumably disabled passengers weren't given much thought at the
time, and if you had heavy luggage or a push-chair the assumption was that a
porter would help you.

Further up the West Coast line, Coventry station is an example of how well
1960s architecture can work.

Martin



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Old September 26th 09, 08:27 AM posted to uk.railway,misc.transport.urban-transit,uk.transport.london
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Default Euston Arch to be rebuilt as nightclub



"Martin Rich" wrote

The concourse at Euston does work well, and I've read several accounts of
the old Euston station being cramped and poky behind the arch. But some
aspects of the present station are very dated. In particular the taxi
rank is at the bottom of a steep staircase, reflecting an approach of
separating pedestrians and road vehicles on different levels, which was
fashionable in the 1960s. Presumably disabled passengers weren't given
much thought at the time, and if you had heavy luggage or a push-chair the
assumption was that a porter would help you.

Disabled passengers who arrive (or depart) by taxi can book Passenger
Assistance and be met by the buggy. They are then taken by a weird and
wonderful route through the bowels of the station and delivered to their
train [1], which they can board before the platform is announced on the main
departure indicator on the concourse. In the reverse direction there seems
to be an understanding that the buggy takes passengers to the taxi drop-off
point, where they are put into a cab, jumping the taxi queue.

[1] Last time my father and I used this we shared the buggy with another
passenger, so were taken to platform 18 first, then back through
subterranean Euston to platform 3 for my father's train.

Peter

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Old September 26th 09, 01:22 PM posted to uk.railway,misc.transport.urban-transit,uk.transport.london
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Default Euston Arch to be rebuilt as nightclub

On 23 Sep, 21:40, Chris Lonsbrough wrote:
IMHO, it should be placed in a central postition in front of Euston
Station.


The proposal is to site it between the surviving Lodges on the Euston Road.

http://www.eustonarch.org/images/text/joerobson.jpg



How are all those buses going to get through that?


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Old September 28th 09, 05:18 PM posted to uk.railway,misc.transport.urban-transit,uk.transport.london
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Default Euston Arch to be rebuilt as nightclub


"Tim Fenton" wrote in message
...

"michael adams" wrote in message
...

It's not a case of things being directly attributable to the Tories, or
any
other party: the adventures of Tim Smith, Neil Hamilton, Tim Yeo and
goodness knows how many more could not reasonably be personally
attributed
to John Major, but they played their part in the severity of his defeat
in
1997.


As is often the case after a Govt. has been in office for so long they
often look
tired by comparison with a hungry opposition which also has never had the
opportunity to make mistakes. Or been subject to the vicissitudes of
"Events, dear boy events".

The point I was making was simply that none of this was directly
attributable
to Harold MacMillan.


Did I assert that any of it was?


....

No. But the poster I was intially responding to, did,

....

MacMillan, like any incumbent PM, was
identified with all manner of stuff that was not directly attributable to
him. That's happening right now. It's what happens.

Macmillan's own daft fault for going there and sitting in the
auditorium
where Cook could see him.

Only an unmitigated arsehole such as Peter "comic genius" Cook would
ever
insult
somebody in public who had no means of replying in kind.

He shouldn't have gone there. Same for anyone else in the public gaze.


I see. So that according to you, somebody who suffered three wounds in
defence
of his country in WW1 shoudn't dare venture into a theatre in the Capital
of
that country 40 yrs later, for fear that he'd be directly insulted from
the stage
with no possibilty of reply ?

Are you seriously suggesting that ?


As someone who has paid his taxes and behaved in a generally lawful manner
over the past decades, I know that using this as a merit badge will not make
it appropriate for me to venture into a variety of areas and/or institutions
which would be more suited to folks of different outlooks, ages and so on.

Had I been a former soldier who had been wounded in action, this would not
have changed things. Those on stage frequently take the **** out of audience
members - Barry Humphries as Dame Edna used to be particularly hard on late
arrivals - and at no time do they take the precaution of asking how they
feel about it, or their personal history.


....

Those late arrivals are relative nobodies, not people in the public eye. Dame Edna
quite possibly singled people out on account of their atrocious clothes as well.
However having had their ten seconds in the spotlight these people will then sink
back into welcome obscurity for the rest of their lives.


....

OK Cook knew who he was ridiculing. But MacMillan should not have gone. A
little basic research would have put him straight.



So Cook was in the habit of singling out well known members of the sudience
for ridicule was he ? He had a history of it, did he ? This being at a time
when interviewers still used to call politicians "sir" on radio and TV.




Cook was for many years a major supporter and
shareholder of Private Eye,

It was either that or spend the dosh on booze or drugs I imagine.

Doesn't help being so mean spirited, even though I'd readily agree that
Peter Cook was a flawed individual.


Not quite as mean spirited as humiliating someone in the public eye from
the stage of a public theatre however.


You're never going to get over that, are you?

Other than that, the fact that Peter Cook chose to publicly and knowingly
waste his latter years in a drink filled haze is entirely up to him.


As have many figures in the public eye, not least Churchill, Wilson,
Thatcher and goodness knows who else. Your point is?


....

First up, Churchill, Thatcher, and Wilson were at a relatively advanced age
had lost General Elections and were no longer leading and would never again
their parties. Unlike our Comedy Hero who had a good twenty more years
of writing and performing ahead of him. What's more Churchill Thatcher and
Wilson didn't **** away their remaining vestiges of talent by phoning local
talk radio stations in the middle of the night in the guise of a Swedish
lorry driver called Sven. Again, no comparison.

....






Most if not all the best stuff in the Eye was the work of Paul Foot.

Ingrams and co often simply voiced their middle class prejudice agains
gays
jews and sundry others.

Many individuals did (and still do) contribute to the Eye. It's always
been
a team product. Ingrams himself was the source of the attitude towards
gays
for so many years but of course the mag had contributors who were gay,
notably Tom Driberg, who did so many of the crosswords ("Tiresias"). I'm
not
aware of any anti-semitic leaning:


Maybe not. Its just unfortunate that two of the Eyes biggest
adversaries/betes noir
down the years Maxwell and Goldsmith both happened to be Jewish and also
"pushy outsiders". Not that the latter applies to all Jewish people by any
means
of course.


There were many other figures, such as Wilson,


Same as every other P.M. Bailley Vass, Sailor Heath, Heathco etc etc.

....

Bill Deedes,


Eh ?

Whenever did the Eye get stuck into Bill Deedes ? Shome Mhishtake surely ?



Harold Evans,


Only because he couldn't take a joke. "There is nothing like a Dame".


and of course dear old Rupe,



Only about his latest, oriental wife giving him handjobs. Not much different
to Vere Harmsworth and Peter Cook in that respect as it happens. Otherwise
the Digger got no more stick in the Eye than did any other press baron.
Other than the aformentioned baron and wannabee baron.




who ITYF are not Jewish.

No, it's not a case of making enemies: Macmillan was inherently enough of
a
snob to not want Butler, who he didn't regard as sufficiently upper
crust,
succeed him.


Butler didn't have the killer instinct and cunning which necessary for all
politicians to claw their way to the very top.


So MacMillan, by inference, posessed the killer instinct and cunning, but it
was off limits to take the **** out of him.



Singling out public figures from the stage in a public theatre and subjecting
them to ridicule is always off limits. Yes.


michael adams

....








--
Tim
http://tim-fenton.fotopic.net/
http://zelo-street.blogspot.com/




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Old September 28th 09, 06:06 PM posted to uk.railway,misc.transport.urban-transit,uk.transport.london
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Default Euston Arch to be rebuilt as nightclub


"michael adams" wrote in message
...

The point I was making was simply that none of this was directly
attributable
to Harold MacMillan.


Did I assert that any of it was?


No. But the poster I was intially responding to, did,


At last a small concession.


OK Cook knew who he was ridiculing. But MacMillan should not have gone. A
little basic research would have put him straight.


So Cook was in the habit of singling out well known members of the
sudience
for ridicule was he ? He had a history of it, did he ? This being at a
time
when interviewers still used to call politicians "sir" on radio and TV.


Let me put you straight on one thing, Michael.

I'm not a naughty schoolboy, and if you persist in treating me like one, it
won't do you any good. Got that?

Cook's attitude to authority in general, and to Mac in particular, was well
known. Fact.

Other than that, the fact that Peter Cook chose to publicly and
knowingly
waste his latter years in a drink filled haze is entirely up to him.


As have many figures in the public eye, not least Churchill, Wilson,
Thatcher and goodness knows who else. Your point is?


First up, Churchill, Thatcher, and Wilson were at a relatively advanced
age
had lost General Elections and were no longer leading and would never
again
their parties.


Churchill spent much of WW2 in an alcoholic haze, and so he was indeed
"leading". Wilson had to have his fix to get through PMQs, and so he too was
leading. Thatcher's increasing use of the bottle, especially during the
difficult times domestically or when locked in negotiations with other
European and World leaders, has been aired many times. It was during the
period that she, too, was leading.

Unlike our Comedy Hero who had a good twenty more years
of writing and performing ahead of him.


You've got a problem with Cook. I realise that. I have no problem with you
calling him whatever you like. But I also am entitled to put a counter view
if I wish.

Singling out public figures from the stage in a public theatre and
subjecting
them to ridicule is always off limits. Yes.


It happened. He should not have gone. Get over it.

--
Tim
http://tim-fenton.fotopic.net/
http://zelo-street.blogspot.com/

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Old September 28th 09, 06:28 PM posted to uk.railway,misc.transport.urban-transit,uk.transport.london
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Default Euston Arch to be rebuilt as nightclub

E27002 wrote:


Thank you. I agree. It is not, primarily, about the material.
Concrete can be used most effectively. My issue is with the
mentality that gave us Westway, Euston Station, and Centre Point.
For what type of humans where these structure built.


Westway's an interesting one - it was clearly massively destructive of
an established community, but also built and designed to very high
standards. It took 30 years or so for the city to come to terms with
it, but it's actually done so, and in a way that has actually
strengthened the community (and notably in ways that none of the
politicians, engineers and planners of the original road foresaw).

http://www.westway.org/about_us/history/#a

There's a rather fine music venue and club underneath it, for instance,
for which the lack of light and ambient noise are obviously not issues -
you can't hear the traffic when the amp's been turned up to
ear-splitting levels anyway, plus it doesn't have any upstairs
neighbours to annoy, because they're in cars.

What else? Centre Point's a fine piece of architecture let down by the
base of it being designed for a car-based city rather than a pedestrian
based one. This is finally being remedied as part of the TCR station
upgrade, which will arguably complete the job of integrating the
building with the city properly. There's a common thread linking CP and
Westway, which is insufficient attention paid to the interface between
old and new, which I grant you is a valid criticism of a lot of post war
planning.

Euston we've covered - by any stretch it's a better *railway station*
than the old Euston, and works as part of the city scape in a consistent
and rational manner - the side down Eversholt St. is a bit of an
eyesore, but the side of Kings Cross on York Way isn't much better than
a blank brick wall either, and nobody criticises KX for being what it is
- a functional, stripped down modern building (that happens to have been
built in the mid-19th century rather than the mid-20th century).

So I'm not sure what the point of that was. There are plenty of bad
examples of concrete use around, so why pick 2 good examples and one
fifty-fifty one?

Tom
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On Mon, 28 Sep 2009, michael adams wrote:

Singling out public figures from the stage in a public theatre and
subjecting them to ridicule is always off limits. Yes.


No, singling out public figures and subjecting them to ridicule is always
fine. In any context. That's part of what being a public figure means.

You really do have some very strange ideas.

tom

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Old September 28th 09, 07:36 PM posted to uk.railway,misc.transport.urban-transit,uk.transport.london
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Default Euston Arch to be rebuilt as nightclub

In message , Tom Barry
writes

Westway's an interesting one - it was clearly massively destructive of
an established community, but also built and designed to very high
standards.


At the time (and I lived in the area then) it's real significance was as
a potential prelude to the destruction of huge swathes of housing for
the London motorway box. As a youngster living in West Kensington and
owning a car, it first seemed wonderful - but it very quickly became
obvious that the country couldn't afford schemes on that scale.

What was not realised back then was that much 19th-century housing in
the central area could be upgraded to very acceptable modern standards -
instead there was a presumption that people would be happier in the
outer suburbs - an idea that totally collapsed when rising oil and
transport costs made suburban living far less economic for those with
jobs in town.
--
Paul Terry


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