Just some LUT cock-up.

"Gerry Adams, leader of Sinn Fein, the political movement linked to the Irish Republican Army: "I condemn the bomb
attacks in London this morning."

Is that statement retroactive?

"banana" wrote in message ...
How should we read the 'power surge' claim?

Was there a power surge?

If so, what caused it?

Certainly, if there was a power surge, there should be a very good
record that it occurred.

Presumably there are various kinds of covert detection technology at
tube stations, and also a weapon exists (used e.g. to defend buildings)
that can trigger e.g. a lorry to explode before it reaches its
destination. Not that I am building anything on this, but it makes you
wonder what may have been done using the electrical cables of the tube
system today.

--
banana "The thing I hate about you, Rowntree, is the way you
give Coca-Cola to your scum, and your best teddy-bear to
Oxfam, and expect us to lick your frigid fingers for the
rest of your frigid life." (Mick Travis, 'If...', 1968)

"nick" wrote in message
...
Just some LUT cock-up.

"Gerry Adams, leader of Sinn Fein, the political movement linked to the
Irish Republican Army: "I condemn the bomb attacks in London this
morning."

Is that statement retroactive?


At least we got warnings from the IRA, not so 'lucky' this time.

the hypocritical murdering *******...
"nick" wrote in message
...
Just some LUT cock-up.

"Gerry Adams, leader of Sinn Fein, the political movement linked to the
Irish Republican Army: "I condemn the bomb
attacks in London this morning."

Is that statement retroactive?

"banana" wrote in message
...
How should we read the 'power surge' claim?

Was there a power surge?

If so, what caused it?

Certainly, if there was a power surge, there should be a very good
record that it occurred.

Presumably there are various kinds of covert detection technology at
tube stations, and also a weapon exists (used e.g. to defend buildings)
that can trigger e.g. a lorry to explode before it reaches its
destination. Not that I am building anything on this, but it makes you
wonder what may have been done using the electrical cables of the tube
system today.

--
banana "The thing I hate about you, Rowntree, is the way you
give Coca-Cola to your scum, and your best teddy-bear to
Oxfam, and expect us to lick your frigid fingers for the
rest of your frigid life." (Mick Travis, 'If...', 1968)

"banana" wrote in message
...
How should we read the 'power surge' claim?

Was there a power surge?

If so, what caused it?

Certainly, if there was a power surge, there should be a very good
record that it occurred.

Tim O'Toole of LU explained it quite simply at the press conference.
The first indication they got in the applicable control room was a
loss of traction current that they would typically get as a result of
the circuit-breakers tripping in the event of a power surge. This was
the only angle the media had until other trains and buses started
blowing up, but they were slow to drop it.
--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War:
http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm
625-Online - classic British television:
http://www.625.org.uk
'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic:
http://www.thingstocome.org.uk

"bobby foster" wrote in message
...
"nick" wrote in message
...
Just some LUT cock-up.

"Gerry Adams, leader of Sinn Fein, the political movement linked to the
Irish Republican Army: "I condemn the bomb
attacks in London this morning."

the hypocritical murdering *******...


I'd rather face the IRA than Islamic fundamentalists as a terrorist enemy.
At least the IRA gave warnings, they didn't use suicide bombers and they
didn't believe that dying for their cause was they greatest thing that they
could ever do. We may have disagreed with the tactics that they used but we
could at least understand the way their minds worked.

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 19:46:54 GMT,
(Nick Cooper) wrote:

Tim O'Toole of LU explained it quite simply at the press conference.
The first indication they got in the applicable control room was a
loss of traction current that they would typically get as a result of
the circuit-breakers tripping in the event of a power surge. This was
the only angle the media had until other trains and buses started
blowing up, but they were slow to drop it.

I suppose the bus was the real giveaway - that was the point at which
I was certain it was terrorism. After all, electrical explosions can
be quite impressive - and it seems that the Tube blasts were
relatively small given the number of casualties and the number of
people who'd be sardined into the trains at that time of the morning.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 19:42:28 +0100, "nick" wrote:

Was there a power surge?

If so, what caused it?

Certainly, if there was a power surge, there should be a very good
record that it occurred.

My personal thought is that this was just a cover story to avoid mass
panic while trying to evacuate the rest of the Underground network. At
this initial stage the total number of devices was unknown, and indeed
a possibility that gas or chemicals could have been used. I would
imagine therefore that they wanted to clear the network as quickly as
possible to prevent further injuries / deaths, but without causing
undue panic.

Certainly the very early report stated "British Transport Police said
the incident happened on the Metroplitan Line and may have been caused
by two trains colliding, a power cut or a power cable exploding",
which was vague considering they had enough information to decide to
close the whole network down.

Or maybe I'm just reading too much into it.

Duncan

Certainly, if there was a power surge, there should be a very good
record that it occurred.

There wasn't a power surge. Initial indications suggested this as the most
likely cause of the symptoms showing (traction current going off
unexpectedly in multiple locations). When more information came to light,
the true cause became apparent. LUL have confirmed that there was no power
surge.


"Duncan" wrote:

My personal thought is that this was just a cover story to avoid mass
panic while trying to evacuate the rest of the Underground network.
[...]
Certainly the very early report stated "British Transport Police said
the incident happened on the Metroplitan Line and may have been caused
by two trains colliding, a power cut or a power cable exploding",
which was vague considering they had enough information to decide to
close the whole network down.

Or maybe I'm just reading too much into it.


I think that you are.

The reason for the network-wide closure was initially given as "power supply
problems", and was not changed to "a network emergency" for a while
(actually, not until after the bus has exploded, although the penny may have
dropped before then - it obviously takes a few minutes for such information
to permeate through).


A very serious power surge might be enough to cause explosions, as well as
causing the traction current to go off. Even after initial reports of
explosions came through, it seems not unreasonable for a power surge to be
considered as the cause (in the absence of any other information suggesting
terrorism). And a difficult-to-trace power surge, causing explosions, is
enough information on its own to decide to close the whole network down.

According to CNN, Metronet [wrongly] admitted at 0927 that a power surge had
caused an explosion at a station. The order for staff to evacuate came some
time after the order to close the system to passengers (in fact, the system
was closed to passengers before the bus exploded, but staff were not ordered
to evacuate until after it had exploded). This all suggests
that a power surge was still the accepted theory at the time that the
network was closed.



MetroGnome

In message , at 06:16:37 on
Fri, 8 Jul 2005, MetroGnome
remarked:
My personal thought is that this was just a cover story to avoid mass
panic while trying to evacuate the rest of the Underground network.
[...]

Or maybe I'm just reading too much into it.

I think that you are.

Although there was a lady on ITV this morning claiming exactly that: it
was a deliberate cover story to avoid spreading panic.
--
Roland Perry

Duncan wrote:
On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 19:42:28 +0100, "nick" wrote:


Was there a power surge?

If so, what caused it?

Certainly, if there was a power surge, there should be a very good
record that it occurred.


My personal thought is that this was just a cover story to avoid mass
panic while trying to evacuate the rest of the Underground network.

That was my thought as well.

I arrive at Westminster station some time about 08:55-09:00 and the
announcers were saying something like "due to power fluctuations the
escalators are not working. But there is no need to be concerned" (not
an exact quote as I don't normally memorise LU error messages). The
last tag on seemed odd to me at the time - why would a power fluctuation
or a non-functioning escalator on London Underground cause me to panic -
neither seem like unusual circumstances.

As I came in on the District line and did not use or see the escalators
I have no idea what was actually happening with them

Since no incident occurred at Westminster I thought of two explanations

1) there really were power fluctuations that caused the escalators to
stop working and it was just a coincidence
2) it was part of a plan to stop people getting on to trains (by
stopping the escalators and holding people whilst they were having their
"fuses reset".

Probably something else entirely of course.

Getting home was surprisingly easy, 2 buses taking about the amount of
time the TfL Journey Planner[1] suggested they would.

[1] Incidentally I don't think this was ever taken down as mentioned on
other threads in this group, it just didn't have any links to it from
the TfL Home Page. My bookmark of (the low graphics version of) it
worked fine.


--
To contact me take a davidhowdon and add a @yahoo.co.uk to the end.