In message
, at
14:33:35 on Sun, 27 Dec 2009, John B remarked:
Meanwhile, I would almost never catch a London
underground train just one stop[1] and think twice about catching one
for two stops.

[1] Except perhaps KX-Farringdon, and even then I'd probably use
Thameslink.

Baker St - Finchley Road? Chalfont-Chesham?

I've never done either of those (as 1-station hops), although I did once
do West Hampstead to Westminster, when my MML train conked out at West
Hampstead (Main Line).

But yes, I agree re Zone 1.

I had mainly zone 1 in mind, as you correctly deduce. But during a tube
strike I once walked from Elephant and Castle (Thameslink) to Vauxhall
[which is through Zone 2], and afterwards walked all the way back to
Kings Cross [Zone 1].
--
Roland Perry

On 27 Dec, 10:08, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
01:38:17 on Sun, 27 Dec 2009, fvw remarked:

London stops, and Essex, starts at the end of the Shenfield metro.

Having once lived in Brentwood [1] for many years, it's fascinating the
way Londoners regard it as "the first town outside London", whereas
Essex people regard it as "the first suburb inside London".

[1] And Shenfield is just the posh bit of Brentwood.
--
Roland Perry

The railway crosses the London border almost exactly where the M25 is,
which happens to be between Harold Wood and Brentwood stations.
Brentwood is thoroughly in Essex and Harold Wood is in London.

On 26 Dec, 23:17, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 14:25:15 -0800 (PST), MIG

wrote:
Do you mean Moorgate? *I'm not aware of it at Bank*.

Ah, maybe I'm getting confused. *It must have been Euston going
towards Bank rather than the other way round. *But it seemed silly, as
there was clearly enough room for the doors to be opened.

Are they perhaps out of view of the DOO cameras? *Or is dispatch from
Euston purely manual?

There is a narrow section there. Hadn't really thought of that. Will
check out Charing Cross* and Moorgate** to see if there could be
equivalent situations.


*Although some peculiar behaviours have started at the north end with
platform staff trying to direct the flow.

That just gets peoples' backs up - they should give up on it.


It's weird, but it's a slight improvement on previous practice of
shutting the doors just before last person steps off and before anyone
has got on. I suspect they had lots of complaints about drivers doing
that at Bank and decided to staff the platform.


*There's a narrow extended bit at the front heading north as I
remember, not sure if it's the same at the back heading south.

**Moorgate has a strange alignment, as if the track was realigned
after the station was built, so the track is curved and the wall isn't.

In message
, MIG
writes

**Moorgate has a strange alignment, as if the track was realigned
after the station was built, so the track is curved and the wall isn't.

Moorgate (or Moorgate Street as it then was) was built as the temporary
northern terminus of the City & South London Line in 1900, and
originally had a scissors crossover (with signal box above) and a
locomotive spur for emergency use. The track was realigned a little less
than two years later when the extension to Angel opened.
--
Paul Terry

On 28 Dec, 10:19, Paul Terry wrote:
In message
, MIG
writes

**Moorgate has a strange alignment, as if the track was realigned
after the station was built, so the track is curved and the wall isn't.

Moorgate (or Moorgate Street as it then was) was built as the temporary
northern terminus of the City & South London Line in 1900, and
originally had a scissors crossover (with signal box above) and a
locomotive spur for emergency use. The track was realigned a little less
than two years later when the extension to Angel opened.
--
Paul Terry

Ah, right. I feel as if I should have known that, but I didn't.

In message
, at
01:29:25 on Mon, 28 Dec 2009, MIG
remarked:
London stops, and Essex, starts at the end of the Shenfield metro.

Having once lived in Brentwood [1] for many years, it's fascinating the
way Londoners regard it as "the first town outside London", whereas
Essex people regard it as "the first suburb inside London".

[1] And Shenfield is just the posh bit of Brentwood.

The railway crosses the London border almost exactly where the M25 is,
which happens to be between Harold Wood and Brentwood stations.

Yes, that's where the administrative boundary is today.

Brentwood is thoroughly in Essex and Harold Wood is in London.

That's what Londoners would say (see above).

Essex people either remember when Romford and Ilford were properly
"Essex", or lump Brentwood in with Harold Wood as "the edge of suburban
London". To the latter, the psychological boundary is the Chelmsford end
of the Brentwood bypass, which is quite close to the junction between
the Chelmsford and Southend branches of the railway.
--
Roland Perry

On 28 Dec, 20:34, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
01:29:25 on Mon, 28 Dec 2009, MIG
remarked:

London stops, and Essex, starts at the end of the Shenfield metro.

Having once lived in Brentwood [1] for many years, it's fascinating the
way Londoners regard it as "the first town outside London", whereas
Essex people regard it as "the first suburb inside London".

[1] And Shenfield is just the posh bit of Brentwood.

The railway crosses the London border almost exactly where the M25 is,
which happens to be between Harold Wood and Brentwood stations.

Yes, that's where the administrative boundary is today.

And what other kind of boundary has there ever been?

In message
, at
00:50:31 on Tue, 29 Dec 2009, MIG
remarked:
London stops, and Essex, starts at the end of the Shenfield metro.

Having once lived in Brentwood [1] for many years, it's fascinating the
way Londoners regard it as "the first town outside London", whereas
Essex people regard it as "the first suburb inside London".

[1] And Shenfield is just the posh bit of Brentwood.

The railway crosses the London border almost exactly where the M25 is,
which happens to be between Harold Wood and Brentwood stations.

Yes, that's where the administrative boundary is today.

And what other kind of boundary has there ever been?

The administrative boundary in the past.

The furthest that London Buses used to travel.

Where the suburban railway today (and Crosslink in future) has a
terminus.

Where it "feels like" the edge of London is, and those feelings do
depend on whether you are looking outwards or inwards.

For further information about the various complexities, I recommend you
review the debate when this newsgroup was formed, regarding the
definition of "London" to be adopted.
--
Roland Perry

On 29 Dec, 09:48, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
00:50:31 on Tue, 29 Dec 2009, MIG
remarked:

London stops, and Essex, starts at the end of the Shenfield metro.

Having once lived in Brentwood [1] for many years, it's fascinating the
way Londoners regard it as "the first town outside London", whereas
Essex people regard it as "the first suburb inside London".

[1] And Shenfield is just the posh bit of Brentwood.

The railway crosses the London border almost exactly where the M25 is,
which happens to be between Harold Wood and Brentwood stations.

Yes, that's where the administrative boundary is today.

And what other kind of boundary has there ever been?

The administrative boundary in the past.

The furthest that London Buses used to travel.

Where the suburban railway today (and Crosslink in future) has a
terminus.

Where it "feels like" the edge of London is, and those feelings do
depend on whether you are looking outwards or inwards.

For further information about the various complexities, I recommend you
review the debate when this newsgroup was formed, regarding the
definition of "London" to be adopted.
--
Roland Perry

Yes, I appreciate all these things. It's just that any county is an
administrative concept and its borders are administrative and can't be
anything else.

For a moment I thought you were falling into the nonsensical "it's
really in Cheshire but administratively in Greater Manchester" sort of
comment.

I can accept the "feels like" and the boundaries used by different
utilities and transport systems, but I can't be doing with the idea
that current administrative boundaries are administrative, while
previous administrative boundaries are real.

In message
, at
07:16:43 on Tue, 29 Dec 2009, MIG
remarked:

any county is an administrative concept and its borders are
administrative and can't be anything else.

No, they can be geographic, ignoring recent administrative changes.

For a moment I thought you were falling into the nonsensical "it's
really in Cheshire but administratively in Greater Manchester" sort of
comment.

Nottingham City is still in(side) Nottinghamshire, despite being a
unitary authority.

I can accept the "feels like" and the boundaries used by different
utilities and transport systems, but I can't be doing with the idea
that current administrative boundaries are administrative, while
previous administrative boundaries are real.

It's only fairly recently that the administrative boundaries have been
tinkered with so that they don't line up with centuries-old geographic
boundaries.
--
Roland Perry