In message , Paul Corfield
writes

On Sat, 6 Feb 2010 09:01:24 +0000, Paul Terry
wrote:

Hence, an OEP is required. Touching in at Waterloo (in this example)
deducts a maximum cash fare, despite the fact there is a Z1/Z2
travelcard on the Oyster. The actual PAYG fare is then adjusted when
touching out (at Ricmond in Zone 4) - basically resulting in a charge
from the boundary of Zone 2 to Zone 4.

No - *if* an OEP is set before travel in this example then a "mixed
travel" entry charge being deducted. This is less than the maximum cash
fare - being £4.20 peak and £3.40 off peak.

How does that square with the statement in the TfL staff briefing
that...

"Passengers must remember to touch out when they have an Oyster
Extension Permit on their card. If they do not, they will be charged a
maximum Oyster fare." ?

And the statement on
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/5823.aspx about PAYG that ...

"When you touch in an entry charge of up to £6.50 will be deducted from
your Oyster card." ?

Does having an OEP reduce the entry charge to the figures you quote
above?

And why make a mixed-mode entry charge when in many cases the journey is
likely to be entirely on NR?

Sorry for pedantry but trying to get the terminology right is important
on such a complicated issue.

No problem - you are right to do so. But I get the feeling that there is
still a huge lack of clarity about the operation of OEPs.
--
Paul Terry

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message , Paul Corfield
writes

On Sat, 6 Feb 2010 09:01:24 +0000, Paul Terry

wrote:

Hence, an OEP is required. Touching in at Waterloo (in this example)
deducts a maximum cash fare, despite the fact there is a Z1/Z2
travelcard on the Oyster. The actual PAYG fare is then adjusted when
touching out (at Ricmond in Zone 4) - basically resulting in a charge
from the boundary of Zone 2 to Zone 4.

No - *if* an OEP is set before travel in this example then a "mixed
travel" entry charge being deducted. This is less than the maximum
cash
fare - being £4.20 peak and £3.40 off peak.

How does that square with the statement in the TfL staff briefing
that...

"Passengers must remember to touch out when they have an Oyster
Extension Permit on their card. If they do not, they will be charged a
maximum Oyster fare." ?

And the statement on
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/5823.aspx about PAYG that
...

"When you touch in an entry charge of up to £6.50 will be deducted
from your Oyster card." ?

Does having an OEP reduce the entry charge to the figures you quote
above?

And why make a mixed-mode entry charge when in many cases the journey
is likely to be entirely on NR?

I think the reasoning is that all travelcard seasons cover at least 2
zones. Therefore the maximum you can pay as an extension is 4 zones
including Z1, which is £4.20/£3.40 (ignoring trips to Amersham etc).

Peter Smyth

In message , Peter Smyth
writes

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...

And why make a mixed-mode entry charge when in many cases the journey
is likely to be entirely on NR?

I think the reasoning is that all travelcard seasons cover at least 2
zones. Therefore the maximum you can pay as an extension is 4 zones
including Z1, which is £4.20/£3.40 (ignoring trips to Amersham etc).

Ah, that would make sense. Thanks.
--
Paul Terry

In message , Paul Corfield
writes

Yes and note the words "up to". There are all sorts of different
charges depending on what zone you are in, what time of day it is and
whether an OEP is present. TfL do not publish all of these charges on
the web hence the "up to" statement. I am able to see other info which
is how I know the other charges exist.

Ah, thanks.
--
Paul Terry

On Sat, 6 Feb 2010, Railist wrote:

My real life example last week: found myself in Barking (had travelled
there from Chingford by bus).

Barking is in Zone 4, at the time I had Zone 1 - 3 travelcard. When I
touched in, on one platform were Westbound District line trains and on
the adjacent platform was a c2c train. So I would need an OEP for one
service bit not the other. I chickened out and jumped on the District
Line...

I hadn't thought about this. So OEPs are required even on interavailable
routes? What was the situation before - could you use PAYG on those? ISTR
thinking that i could use PAYG between King's Cross and Finsbury Park on
the trains; was i wrong?

tom

--
Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design.

In message of Fri, 5 Feb
2010 18:21:45 in uk.transport.london, Paul Corfield
writes
On Fri, 5 Feb 2010 09:22:38 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

(I'm wondering if you've got the wrong end of the stick on this OEP
business?)

I could always adapt the quiz that has been used in LUL as a "tester"
for staff to see if they understood all of the various issues relating
to Oyster on NR. It covers a wide range of issues - I did it again
today and still only managed 11 out of 12! I should really have got 12.

Might be fun to see how well people on the group understand the various
concepts.


Paul,
Please, can I or we see it?

What process is used to ensure that staff-testing quizzes are correct
and kept so when conditions change? e.g. Oyster deposits and comparison
with Day Travelcards.

For me, Auto top-up PAYG is very convenient. It avoids the spending
commitment of a Travelcard. However, it is fraught with the risk of
maximum fares on a touching failure. OTOH, it is physically easier to
use than a paper Travelcard. The removal of the £0.50 daily sweetener
means I try to buy a Travelcard for any day when I expect to do more
than 3 underground journeys.

(I HATE the lack (or incoherence) of ticketing information since January
2. London Travelwatch was presented with a fait accompli on the decision
not to publish new editions of Your Guide to Tickets and Fares. There is
no link to Oyster on http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresandtickets/2930
..aspx. There ARE links from http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/default.aspx
. AFAIK, TfL took the decision quietly. No press release or other
information. I suspect it was a good cost-saving decision, but the lack
of publicity makes me wonder.)


--
Walter Briscoe

In message of Sat, 6 Feb
2010 14:53:17 in uk.transport.london, Paul Corfield
writes
On Sat, 6 Feb 2010 13:55:08 +0000, Walter Briscoe
wrote:

In message of Fri, 5 Feb
2010 18:21:45 in uk.transport.london, Paul Corfield
writes

[snip]

I could always adapt the quiz that has been used in LUL as a "tester"
for staff to see if they understood all of the various issues relating
to Oyster on NR. It covers a wide range of issues - I did it again
today and still only managed 11 out of 12! I should really have got 12.

Might be fun to see how well people on the group understand the various
concepts.


Paul,
Please, can I or we see it?

I'm not going to publish it. I will take the basic concepts and devise
a suitable "quiz" for people to have a go it if they want to. I'll even
work out how well people did. Anyone here should be able to get to the
answers using the TfL web pages or from past postings on this group.

I'm not going to use the FOI Act to try to acquire the information.

[snip]

The issue about the fares leaflets has been discussed before. There are
also a load of questions from Assembly Members in the most recent
Mayor's Question Time on 27th Jan 2010. The responses are on the
relevant part of the Mayor's website.

I confess failure. I found details of the meeting at http://www.london.
gov.uk/assembly/assemmtgs/2010/mqtjan27/agenda.jsp.
There I was pointed to http://www.london.gov.uk/assembly/assemmtgs/2010
/mqtjan27/item06.pdf.
Questions 158 and 228 were all I found that was relevant.
I did not find answers.

I will break off to get to important matters at TW1 1DZ where the start
was delayed for 4 minutes.
--
Walter Briscoe

Paul Corfield wrote

I'm not going to publish it. I will take the basic concepts and
devise
a suitable "quiz" for people to have a go it if they want to. I'll
even
work out how well people did. Anyone here should be able to get to
the
answers using the TfL web pages or from past postings on this group.

It would be interesting to see if it can be answered using only the
information on wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyster_card

--
Mike D

Grab these fckers while you can... In the future OEPs are gonna be the
rarest of all rare tickets!

Lump in!

In article
,
(Offramp) wrote:

Grab these fckers while you can... In the future OEPs are gonna be the
rarest of all rare tickets!

Lump in!

Is there any way of getting useful external evidence of having an OEP if
you want to show you have one?

--
Colin Rosenstiel