Paul Corfield wrote on 24 January 2011 21:58:06 ...
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 12:55:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Jan 24, 8:25 pm, "Paul
wrote:
wrote in message

...

Did I hear at some point, however, that they may eventually extend ELL out
to Canden town?

Don't think it has ever been proposed officially. The track layout is not
designed to allow for extending the ELL west of Highbury& Islington anyway.
Between there and Camden Rd it is laid out as a two track railway in the
centre of the formation with long passing loops for freight on the outside.
Before the works were slightly reduced, there was a plan for a third
platform at Camden Rd, but this was to allow a Stratford - Camden Rd shuttle
to run.


Hasn't this extra platform at Camden Road just been postponed. DfT and
TfL were fighting over who was going to pay for the bridge
refurbishment work needed on the northern side of the formation at
Camden Road. So the extension of the four tracks beyond the station
won't now happen until after the Olympics (of course there may have
been another change of plans which I missed).

The bridge refurbishment and reinstatement of tracks was a freight only
scheme that was "delayed" until after 2012. However there has been a
deathly hush for many months and I'd not be surprised if it has been
gently pushed off the DfT / Network Rail shopping list. I've not read
or heard anything about it anywhere for a long, long time.

I understand (from other forums) that the shuttle service is no more and
what LOROL will do in the peaks is run 4 tph Stratford - Clapham
Junction rather than the planned 2 tph. There is no fleet impact [1]
plus there is a better service Camden Road - Willesden Junction.

[1] I was sad enough to do some calculations.

But that would mean 8 tph between Camden Road and Willesden Junction. I
thought the reason why it was limited to 6 tph was in order to allow for
freight paths. Otherwise, why plan for two shuttle services
(Strat-Camden and WJ-CJ) with all the operational complexity?
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On Jan 24, 9:58*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 12:55:33 -0800 (PST), Andy
wrote:





On Jan 24, 8:25*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
wrote in message

...

Did I hear at some point, however, that they may eventually extend ELL out
to Canden town?

Don't think it has ever been proposed officially. *The track layout is not
designed to allow for extending the ELL west of Highbury & Islington anyway.
Between there and Camden Rd it is laid out as a two track railway in the
centre of the formation with long *passing loops for freight on the outside.
Before the works were slightly reduced, there was a plan for a third
platform at Camden Rd, but this was to allow a Stratford - Camden Rd shuttle
to run.

Hasn't this extra platform at Camden Road just been postponed. DfT and
TfL were fighting over who was going to pay for the bridge
refurbishment work needed on the northern side of the formation at
Camden Road. So the extension of the four tracks beyond the station
won't now happen until after the Olympics (of course there may have
been another change of plans which I missed).

The bridge refurbishment and reinstatement of tracks was a freight only
scheme that was "delayed" until after 2012. However there has been a
deathly hush for many months and I'd not be surprised if it has been
gently pushed off the DfT / Network Rail shopping list. *I've not read
or heard anything about it anywhere for a long, long time.

But any third platform at Camden Road would need part of the northern
trackbed (and at least part of the western most bridge) refurbished,
otherwise there would be no access to the platform face on the other
side of the current eastbound platform.


I understand (from other forums) that the shuttle service is no more and
what LOROL will do in the peaks is run 4 tph Stratford - Clapham
Junction rather than the planned 2 tph. *There is no fleet impact [1]
plus there is a better service Camden Road - Willesden Junction.


I've seen that mentioned too.

[1] I was sad enough to do some calculations.

--
Paul C

On Jan 24, 10:15*pm, "Richard J." wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote on 24 January 2011 21:58:06 ....





On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 12:55:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Jan 24, 8:25 pm, "Paul
wrote:
*wrote in message

...

Did I hear at some point, however, that they may eventually extend ELL out
to Canden town?

Don't think it has ever been proposed officially. *The track layout is not
designed to allow for extending the ELL west of Highbury& *Islington anyway.
Between there and Camden Rd it is laid out as a two track railway in the
centre of the formation with long *passing loops for freight on the outside.
Before the works were slightly reduced, there was a plan for a third
platform at Camden Rd, but this was to allow a Stratford - Camden Rd shuttle
to run.

Hasn't this extra platform at Camden Road just been postponed. DfT and
TfL were fighting over who was going to pay for the bridge
refurbishment work needed on the northern side of the formation at
Camden Road. So the extension of the four tracks beyond the station
won't now happen until after the Olympics (of course there may have
been another change of plans which I missed).

The bridge refurbishment and reinstatement of tracks was a freight only
scheme that was "delayed" until after 2012. However there has been a
deathly hush for many months and I'd not be surprised if it has been
gently pushed off the DfT / Network Rail shopping list. *I've not read
or heard anything about it anywhere for a long, long time.

I understand (from other forums) that the shuttle service is no more and
what LOROL will do in the peaks is run 4 tph Stratford - Clapham
Junction rather than the planned 2 tph. *There is no fleet impact [1]
plus there is a better service Camden Road - Willesden Junction.

[1] I was sad enough to do some calculations.

But that would mean 8 tph between Camden Road and Willesden Junction. *I
thought the reason why it was limited to 6 tph was in order to allow for
freight paths. *Otherwise, why plan for two shuttle services
(Strat-Camden and WJ-CJ) with all the operational complexity?
--

It would only be 8tph during peak periods, when freight access is
limited (due to lack of capacity over the Camden Road - Primrose Hill
route to the WCML, if nothing else).

On Jan 24, 11:58*am, 1506 wrote:
Last Wednesday, I was in London for the day. *After enjoying Southwest
Trains and London Underground, I experienced London Overground for the
First time. *

LOROL!!

On Jan 24, 12:25*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
wrote in message

...

Did I hear at some point, however, that they may eventually extend ELL out
to Canden town?

Don't think it has ever been proposed officially. *The track layout is not
designed to allow for extending the ELL west of Highbury & Islington anyway.
Between there and Camden Rd it is laid out as a two track railway in the
centre of the formation with long *passing loops for freight on the outside.
Before the works were slightly reduced, there was a plan for a third
platform at Camden Rd, but this was to allow a Stratford - Camden Rd shuttle
to run.

There are two main reasons it won't happen, IMHO. *Firstly, the NLL capacity
is only 8 tph in the peak, and 6 tph offpeak, to allow for the freight
traffic, so there is no room for additional trains from the ELL without
reducing the NLL service. *If paths were available, eastbound trains towards
the ELL would have to cross westbound passenger and freight trains trains
from the Stratford direction, this would not allow a robust timetable.

The freight loops are a problem. If they could be moved elsewhere, it
should be possible for the ELL to utliize the southern pair to Camden
Road and Primrose hill. Freight and the NLL would run on the northern
pair. It would mean new signalling, a reinstated bridge, and new
platforms.

On Jan 25, 9:10*am, 1506 wrote:
On Jan 24, 12:25*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:



wrote in message

...

Did I hear at some point, however, that they may eventually extend ELL out
to Canden town?

Don't think it has ever been proposed officially. *The track layout is not
designed to allow for extending the ELL west of Highbury & Islington anyway.
Between there and Camden Rd it is laid out as a two track railway in the
centre of the formation with long *passing loops for freight on the outside.
Before the works were slightly reduced, there was a plan for a third
platform at Camden Rd, but this was to allow a Stratford - Camden Rd shuttle
to run.

There are two main reasons it won't happen, IMHO. *Firstly, the NLL capacity
is only 8 tph in the peak, and 6 tph offpeak, to allow for the freight
traffic, so there is no room for additional trains from the ELL without
reducing the NLL service. *If paths were available, eastbound trains towards
the ELL would have to cross westbound passenger and freight trains trains
from the Stratford direction, this would not allow a robust timetable.

The freight loops are a problem. *If they could be moved elsewhere, it
should be possible for the ELL to utliize the southern pair to Camden
Road and Primrose hill. *Freight and the NLL would run on the northern
pair. *It would mean new signalling, a reinstated bridge, and new
platforms.

It would also need a piece of new bridge/viaduct (over Kentish Town
Road) at the western end of Camden Road, between the station and the
junction. Otherwise all the trains will still be sharing a short piece
of double track where the junction is.

"Andy" wrote in message
...
On Jan 24, 8:25 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Hasn't this extra platform at Camden Road just been postponed. DfT and
TfL were fighting over who was going to pay for the bridge
refurbishment work needed on the northern side of the formation at
Camden Road.

Yes - however, as others have pointed out, it has all gone a bit quiet on
that possibility.

It's also unlikely to happen due to the layout at Highbury and
Islington, with only a single connecting track on which a voltage
changeover would also be needed.

Agree - I probably oversimplified that point when I wrote "The track layout
is not designed to allow for extending the ELL west, etc..."

Paul S

On Jan 24, 4:06*am, "Recliner" wrote:
"1506" wrote in message





Last Wednesday, I was in London for the day. *After enjoying Southwest
Trains and London Underground, I experienced London Overground for the
First time. *An aside: I was surprised by the way delays on the
Underground were announced as they are a normal occurrence.

Having utilized the Northern City I joined the Overground (North
London Line) at Highbury & Islington. *The East London line side was a
hive of activity with numerous orange jacketed workers in
attendance.

Highbury & Islington station looked as if it has been largely
rebuilt. *It is a very different place from the H&I of the early
1970s. *The new platforms and footbridge look very good.

Onwards, I travelled to Kentish Town West. *It is disappointing to see
the route narrow to two tracks. *Would that the ELL could extend to
Camden Road. *The bridge at Camden Road is a sad sight.

Considering the length of many journeys on the Overground, the new
trains seem well designed for their purpose. *They are functional and
spacious with helpful PIS systems. *They are certainly a change from
the LMR slam door stock I recall.

Yes, agreed, though I think they could have included a bit more padding
on the seats, plus more internal route maps, visible from all seats, as
in most Tube trains.

Agreed also! Although I think any maps should just show the specific
"service group" for the train, i.e. only those services running West
from Stratford, or only those running East from Highbury and
Islington. The map that shows the entire Overground is too all
encompassing, and geographically challenged.

"1506" wrote in message

On Jan 24, 4:06 am, "Recliner" wrote:
"1506" wrote in message


Yes, agreed, though I think they could have included a bit more
padding on the seats, plus more internal route maps, visible from
all seats, as in most Tube trains.

Agreed also! Although I think any maps should just show the specific
"service group" for the train, i.e. only those services running West
from Stratford, or only those running East from Highbury and
Islington. The map that shows the entire Overground is too all
encompassing, and geographically challenged.

Yes, that would be better, though I'm not sure that the dual voltage
stock is dedicated to any single line, so it may not be practical.

"1506" wrote in message
...

Agreed also! Although I think any maps should just show the specific
"service group" for the train, i.e. only those services running West
from Stratford, or only those running East from Highbury and
Islington. The map that shows the entire Overground is too all
encompassing, and geographically challenged.

The trains aren't limited to particular service groups though.

All the dual voltage units can and do show up anywhere, NLL, WLL, DC and
ELL. It is only the DC units that are constrained to the ELL, (and the SLL
extension when it opens - and makes the map even more 'challenged').

Paul S