In article ,
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 12:57:35 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 13:46:02 +0100
"Mizter T" wrote:
Of course it's about revenue - Finsbury Park is known as somewhere where
there are no barriers, that combined with the Tube interchange makes it
attractive to those wishing to evade a fare.

They can't have just realised this after 20 years so there must be another
reason. Ah , I know what it is - before (honest) people would have touched
in at their tube station in central london and touched out at their
FCC station after the readers were installed there instead of finsbury. Now of
course they'll have to touch out at finsbury park too. More revenue and the
chance to charge people full penalty fares if they use PAYG. Result!

Err they are going to have to be very careful how they deal with this.
By putting gates on the FCC platforms they are making Finsbury Park a
potential OSI within one station given there are validators on the
interchange and entry / exit routes. They are going to have to be very,
very clear about what people do when coming in from the street or making
an interchange. They are potentially recreating the Stratford JLE
interchange gateline concept where people may have to entry or exit
validate twice if going from street to FCC platforms or else having to
validate on entry at, say, Palmers Green, exit at FCC gateline, re-enter
at LU validator at FP and final exit at whatever the person is
travelling to. The alternative is for the FCC gateline to effectively
perform a limited interchange check only but ISTR that the PAYG on NR
Ticket logic is not compatible with interchange gatelines - hence the
removal at Stratford.

Why can't they just leave things as they are? As we've discussed
before it's already set up for interchange (presumably because if you
transfer via Station Place you do actually leave the NR station via
one exit to the street and then re-enter the LUL station via an
adjacent entrance - or vice versa). Hence the problem of not being
able to start a new journey at Finsbury Park (or, I gather, anywhere
else) shortly after completing a journey at Finsbury Park.

Or do gates handle interchange differently from standalone readers?

Roy

In message of Tue, 12
Apr 2011 15:24:53 in uk.transport.london, Roy Badami
writes
In article ,
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 12:57:35 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 13:46:02 +0100
"Mizter T" wrote:
Of course it's about revenue - Finsbury Park is known as somewhere where
there are no barriers, that combined with the Tube interchange makes it
attractive to those wishing to evade a fare.

[snip]


Why can't they just leave things as they are? As we've discussed
before it's already set up for interchange (presumably because if you
transfer via Station Place you do actually leave the NR station via
one exit to the street and then re-enter the LUL station via an
adjacent entrance - or vice versa). Hence the problem of not being
able to start a new journey at Finsbury Park (or, I gather, anywhere
else) shortly after completing a journey at Finsbury Park.

Or do gates handle interchange differently from standalone readers?

Finsbury Park (FPK) is special. If you touch out at FPK and later touch
out at another station, you are charged for one journey. If you touch
out at FPK, a second touch at FPK within 30 minutes is ignored. A second
touch after more than 30 minutes is a touch in.

That is a big improvement in PAYG charging. The later touch out at
another station used to be charged as an unstarted journey. There is one
exception: touch in at station A, out at FPK, and out again at A and you
will be charged for a complete journey between A and FPK and an
unstarted journey at A. I can't remember if this is automatically
adjusted within a few days for registered catds.

I saw the new gates being constructed. There is a passenger holding area
about 3m deep at the top of the stairs. I imagine the gates will be
locked open for Arsenal home matches. I don't know if anything special
is done at Drayton Park for such congregations.

There is also inconsistent signage. Passengers going down the stairs are
instructed to keep left; passengers going up get no such instruction. My
email to FCC on this was passed on to station management. I have not
seen if the signage has been corrected.
--
Walter Briscoe

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 07:04:52 +0100
Walter Briscoe wrote:
Finsbury Park (FPK) is special. If you touch out at FPK and later touch
out at another station, you are charged for one journey. If you touch
out at FPK, a second touch at FPK within 30 minutes is ignored. A second
touch after more than 30 minutes is a touch in.

Thats probably how it works in theory. I wonder in practice?

When I worked in the centre I occasionally used to get off the piccadilly line
at finsbury if it was ****ed and get FCC to palmers green where I touched out.
If I was doing that journey now with a PAYG I'd touch out at finsbury and
simply wouldn't bother to touch out at palmers and frankly FCC could GFT.

B2003

Walter Briscoe wrote in
:

I saw the new gates being constructed. There is a passenger holding
area about 3m deep at the top of the stairs. I imagine the gates will
be locked open for Arsenal home matches. I don't know if anything
special is done at Drayton Park for such congregations.

Yes: they shut the station and make people walk to FP. Which is fair enough
- it really doesn't have the capacity to accommodate a footy crowd safely.

JB

On 13 Apr, 10:14, John B wrote:
Walter Briscoe wrote :

I saw the new gates being constructed. There is a passenger holding
area about 3m deep at the top of the stairs. I imagine the gates will
be locked open for Arsenal home matches. I don't know if anything
special is done at Drayton Park for such congregations.

Yes: they shut the station and make people walk to FP. Which is fair enough
- it really doesn't have the capacity to accommodate a footy crowd safely.

JB

Despite all the waffle about crime everytime I've pased through
Finsbury Park in the evening the gates have been left open!

In message
, at
06:59:52 on Wed, 4 May 2011, George
remarked:
Despite all the waffle about crime everytime I've pased through
Finsbury Park in the evening the gates have been left open!

Same with the waffle about revenue protection. It's very rare I've taken
an early evening train home to Nottingham and found the gates operating
when I got there.
--
Roland Perry

"George" wrote in message
...
On 13 Apr, 10:14, John B wrote:
Walter Briscoe wrote
:

I saw the new gates being constructed. There is a passenger holding
area about 3m deep at the top of the stairs. I imagine the gates will
be locked open for Arsenal home matches. I don't know if anything
special is done at Drayton Park for such congregations.

Yes: they shut the station and make people walk to FP. Which is fair
enough
- it really doesn't have the capacity to accommodate a footy crowd
safely.

JB

Despite all the waffle about crime everytime I've pased through
Finsbury Park in the evening the gates have been left open!

One day I'll download the safety case for those gates... I am yet to
experience the new setup in either rush period and I can see there being
either a nasty accident (crushing, or someone falls down the stairs) or as
stated they will end up being left open.