"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 13:51:29 on Sun, 24 Jul
2011, tim.... remarked:
Asking your employer (rather than the vendor) to be flexible in
this instance is unreasonable IMHO

Yes, we already know you are the employer from hell.

No you don't, because I am not an employer :-)

But even if I was, I am the sort of person who would be reasonable as
possible about such issues, but I still wouldn't consider the insistence
on
agreeing a flexible completion date as a valid reason for disrupting a,
months in advance, pre-planned shift system.

It's not a flexible date, but one that's firmly set at short notice.

It's flexible in the sense that you have willingly said to the vendor "I can
do any day" rather than "It must be May 10, 11, 15, 16, 22, 23 etc".

With rentals it's even more common to have only a couple of week's notice.

How come? You get 2 months notice for having to leave. Even if you push it
to a court order the court will give you some flexibility for the day to
move.

In message , at 15:08:02 on Sun, 24 Jul
2011, tim.... remarked:

Yes, we already know you are the employer from hell.

No you don't, because I am not an employer :-)

But even if I was, I am the sort of person who would be reasonable as
possible about such issues, but I still wouldn't consider the insistence
on
agreeing a flexible completion date as a valid reason for disrupting a,
months in advance, pre-planned shift system.

It's not a flexible date, but one that's firmly set at short notice.

It's flexible in the sense that you have willingly said to the vendor "I can
do any day" rather than "It must be May 10, 11, 15, 16, 22, 23 etc".

No, it isn't like that. Picking a date is a compromise between what can
be quite a few people, as well as the availability of third parties (you
can't realistically complete between Xmas and New Year for example,
because not only are most solicitors closed, apparently none of the
lenders are open so you can't get the funds.

With rentals it's even more common to have only a couple of week's notice.

How come? You get 2 months notice for having to leave. Even if you push it
to a court order the court will give you some flexibility for the day to
move.

You have to find somewhere to move to (which is clearly much easier if
the last landlord gives you a reference along the lines of "I had to go
to court to evict him"). Finding somewhere isn't always easy, and can
result in quite a small window during which you have to move. As part of
the "employer unreasonableness" issue is whether the day in question is
taken as paid, paid leave, or unpaid leave, money can be an issue and
not everyone can afford to have a big overlap where you are paying two
sets of rent at once. And if you aren't there the day the landlord's
agents do the walk-round you are giving them a blank cheque to dock your
deposit.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 15:08:02 on Sun, 24 Jul
2011, tim.... remarked:

Yes, we already know you are the employer from hell.

No you don't, because I am not an employer :-)

But even if I was, I am the sort of person who would be reasonable as
possible about such issues, but I still wouldn't consider the insistence
on
agreeing a flexible completion date as a valid reason for disrupting a,
months in advance, pre-planned shift system.

It's not a flexible date, but one that's firmly set at short notice.

It's flexible in the sense that you have willingly said to the vendor "I
can
do any day" rather than "It must be May 10, 11, 15, 16, 22, 23 etc".

No, it isn't like that. Picking a date is a compromise between what can be
quite a few people, as well as the availability of third parties (you
can't realistically complete between Xmas and New Year for example,
because not only are most solicitors closed, apparently none of the
lenders are open so you can't get the funds.

With rentals it's even more common to have only a couple of week's
notice.

How come? You get 2 months notice for having to leave. Even if you push
it
to a court order the court will give you some flexibility for the day to
move.

You have to find somewhere to move to (which is clearly much easier if the
last landlord gives you a reference along the lines of "I had to go to
court to evict him"). Finding somewhere isn't always easy, and can result
in quite a small window during which you have to move. As part of the
"employer unreasonableness" issue is whether the day in question is taken
as paid, paid leave, or unpaid leave, money can be an issue and not
everyone can afford to have a big overlap where you are paying two sets of
rent at once.

We're specifically talking about 45K pa employees here

tim

In message , at 08:52:57 on Mon, 25 Jul
2011, tim.... remarked:

You have to find somewhere to move to (which is clearly much easier if the
last landlord gives you a reference along the lines of "I had to go to
court to evict him"). Finding somewhere isn't always easy, and can result
in quite a small window during which you have to move. As part of the
"employer unreasonableness" issue is whether the day in question is taken
as paid, paid leave, or unpaid leave, money can be an issue and not
everyone can afford to have a big overlap where you are paying two sets of
rent at once.

We're specifically talking about 45K pa employees here

Are you? Oddly enough, the example I had in mind was someone on around
that salary too.

I'm not sure what you think changes if the salary differs a lot from
that.
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 06:09:34PM +0100, tim.... wrote:
"Roland Perry" wrote:
All very interesting stuff. Thanks. Must be quite a problem for drivers to
see a GP if it's one of those surgeries where you can't get an appointment
(even for non-urgent things) until you try calling the reception at 8am
the same day.
So they go to the doctors on a day when they are on lates.

Must be nice to be able to schedule your sickness. It's a trick I have
yet to manage.

I was talking to someone a week or two ago about an employee who got into
trouble because he took a day off at short notice to move house (one of
those occasions where they didn't know the completion date until the last
minute).
In the worst case, why does someone actually need to be present when a
removals firm is moving you?

To let them in the front door. To make sure they don't nick stuff.
Etc.

The lack of flexibility in taking time off is a great reason why tube
drivers should be highly paid IMO.

--
David Cantrell | even more awesome than a panda-fur coat

I remember when computers were frustrating because they did
exactly what you told them to. That seems kinda quaint now.
-- JD Baldwin, in the Monastery

On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 02:51:02PM -0500, wrote:

Drivers are not allowed to do overtime (the unions won't allow it)

Why do the unions have any say in the matter? If a driver wants to work
overtime, and his manager has work for him to do, then it seems crazy to
stop them.

--
David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness

Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity
-- Hanlon's Razor

Stupidity maintained long enough is a form of malice
-- Richard Bos's corollary

In message , at 11:53:32
on Mon, 25 Jul 2011, David Cantrell remarked:
Drivers are not allowed to do overtime (the unions won't allow it)

Why do the unions have any say in the matter? If a driver wants to work
overtime, and his manager has work for him to do, then it seems crazy to
stop them.

You seem to be overlooking the "collective" in Collective Bargaining.

If the unions have decided that they'd prefer more jobs (which equates
to more subs and also an easier sell that every member needs a 'living
wage' without overtime), rather than fewer jobs with flexibility via
overtime, then everyone gets lumbered with that decision.
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 11:42:40 +0100
David Cantrell wrote:
I was talking to someone a week or two ago about an employee who got into
trouble because he took a day off at short notice to move house (one of
those occasions where they didn't know the completion date until the last
minute).
In the worst case, why does someone actually need to be present when a
removals firm is moving you?

To let them in the front door. To make sure they don't nick stuff.
Etc.

The lack of flexibility in taking time off is a great reason why tube
drivers should be highly paid IMO.

Many jobs are inflexible about taking time off. That doesn't mean they should
all earn a fortune. 45K is an absurb salary for such a low skilled job.
And don't anyone tell me how they have to be highly trained technitions for when
things go wrong - they just go through a troubleshooting checklist and if that
doesn't work they call control and read their paper. A trained chimp could
do it.

B2003

On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:16:23 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
If the unions have decided that they'd prefer more jobs (which equates
to more subs and also an easier sell that every member needs a 'living
wage' without overtime), rather than fewer jobs with flexibility via
overtime, then everyone gets lumbered with that decision.

If overtime is available what is stopping someone from doing it? If the union
rep doesn't like it surely thats a case of tough ****?

B2003

In message , at 11:44:36 on Mon, 25 Jul
2011, d remarked:
If the unions have decided that they'd prefer more jobs (which equates
to more subs and also an easier sell that every member needs a 'living
wage' without overtime), rather than fewer jobs with flexibility via
overtime, then everyone gets lumbered with that decision.

If overtime is available what is stopping someone from doing it? If the union
rep doesn't like it surely thats a case of tough ****?

The employer will have agreed not to offer overtime, as part of the
bargaining at some earlier session with the unions.

It works the other way round as well. I got burnt by this in my very
first "proper job". I naively accepted an evening shift (replacing a day
shift) for a couple of weeks because it suited me better, and didn't ask
for extra shift pay.

The unions found out, I got an ear-bashing from the union rep and the
employer was forced to pay me the extra shift pay.
--
Roland Perry