In message , at 06:17:31
on Fri, 22 Jul 2011, remarked:

drivers are paid for a 35 hour week, but work 36 hours

Is that spread over s 5-day week, or four?
--
Roland Perry

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:

I was talking to someone a week or two ago about an employee who got
into trouble because he took a day off at short notice to move house
(one of those occasions where they didn't know the completion date until
the last minute). The amount of leeway in such things does seem to vary
a lot from one industry to another.

I'm sure most employers would allow it if they were warned in advance.
I had to do it a while ago and the company were fine.
It must be difficult though with industries which are tightly manned
such as, of course, LUL.

Nick
--
Serendipity: http://www.leverton.org/blosxom (last update 29th March 2010)
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996

wrote in message ...

As a consequence of everything being so tight, a driver requesting time
out "or special leave" as it's known) may be refused. This is the same for
whether the special leave is at the beginning or end of the duty, or for a
day or more. If it's for a day in advance and cover is available, it might
be possible for that person to arrange to take a day or more of their
leave at that time. In which case, that time off would be shown as leave
and he would be paid as normal and it wouldn't go against them. This is
normally the case if more than the allowed time off for funerals is
required.

One of the few exceptions for not granting special leave would be a
funeral. A driver phoning in to say that they have to wait in because
somebody is late turing up, a plumber etc. is late finishing, they have to
pick up their children from school etc. will normally be given short
shrift and told to "be in on time or you'll be booked" because if they're
not in on time, it may be that their train (or another train later because
a spare is already being used) is cancelled.

Is it possible for drivers to agree to swap shifts with each other?

Peter Smyth

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

*From:* Roland Perry
*Date:* Fri, 22 Jul 2011 15:37:02 +0100

In message , at
09:02:41 on Fri, 22 Jul 2011, remarked:
One of the few exceptions for not granting special leave would be a
funeral. A driver phoning in to say that they have to wait in
because
somebody is late turing up, a plumber etc. is late finishing, they
have to
pick up their children from school etc. will normally be given
short
shrift and told to "be in on time or you'll be booked"

All very interesting stuff. Thanks. Must be quite a problem for
drivers to see a GP if it's one of those surgeries where you can't
get an appointment (even for non-urgent things) until you try
calling the reception at 8am the same day.

I was talking to someone a week or two ago about an employee who
got into trouble because he took a day off at short notice to move
house (one of those occasions where they didn't know the completion
date until the last minute). The amount of leeway in such things
does seem to vary a lot from one industry to another.
--
Roland Perry

The short notice (depending how short) would have been the problem.
Normally moving house is a day you are allowed to take off if sufficient
notice is given. I think that there is an agreement that this is a paid
day, and is limited to one every X (10?) years.

Roger

*From:* Roland Perry
*Date:* Fri, 22 Jul 2011 19:03:58 +0100

In message , at
06:17:31 on Fri, 22 Jul 2011, remarked:

drivers are paid for a 35 hour week, but work 36 hours

Is that spread over s 5-day week, or four?
--
Roland Perry


It's spread over five days.

As long as it conforms to certain criteria as agreed between management
and unions, such as the maximum amount of hours on a train without a break
etc., the length of a duty can vary between around 4 hours 16 mins to 8
hours. Spare turns are normally 8 hour turns to maximise the work that a
spare driver can do.
These hours doesn't include a 30 minute unpaid meal relief so, for
example, a driver working an eight hour shift, would be booked on for 8½
hours.

This is the same for M-F, Saturday and Sunday duties. These varying hours
are more for management's benefits than for the benefit of the staff as it
means that they can use the drivers more productively and there is less
wasted "off-train" time. Drivers working a night shift on passenger trains
will normally work a seven day week then have four ret days the following
week

As a driver, it's nice to have a short turn, these days many staff often
have to travel a long way to and from work and so, if you're travelling 1
- 1½ hours each day, you might as well do a full shift. That's why some
drivers would prefer to work a longer four day week of an average 9 hour
day. They would still work the same amount of hours a week, but would have
to travel for one day less.

Generally, the total weekly hours can vary above or below 36 hours, but
should average out at 36 hours over the course of a month.

Roger

*From:* "Peter Smyth"
*Date:* Fri, 22 Jul 2011 19:21:52 +0100

wrote in message
...

As a consequence of everything being so tight, a driver requesting
time
out "or special leave" as it's known) may be refused. This is the
same for
whether the special leave is at the beginning or end of the duty,
or for a
day or more. If it's for a day in advance and cover is available,
it might
be possible for that person to arrange to take a day or more of
their
leave at that time. In which case, that time off would be shown as
leave
and he would be paid as normal and it wouldn't go against them.
This is
normally the case if more than the allowed time off for funerals is
required.

One of the few exceptions for not granting special leave would be a
funeral. A driver phoning in to say that they have to wait in
because
somebody is late turing up, a plumber etc. is late finishing, they
have to
pick up their children from school etc. will normally be given
short
shrift and told to "be in on time or you'll be booked" because if
they're
not in on time, it may be that their train (or another train later
because
a spare is already being used) is cancelled.

Is it possible for drivers to agree to swap shifts with each other?

Peter Smyth



Drivers can swap shifts, and indeed many do, especially those who like to
work at certain times of the day, such as lates, earlies or middles. You
can also swap rest days. The problem is getting somebody to change with
you at the last minute. If you're on a similar shift it's not so bad, but
there has to be a minimum of twelve hours between shifts. Therefore,
whilst a person who should be doing an early turn that day can swap their
shift for a late turn, the driver on the late turn couldn't swap their
shift for the early turn, unless they were rest day the day before.
Otherwise, in an extreme example, a driver finishing at 01:30 in the
morning on a late turn could then book on at 04:55 the same morning for an
early turn.

Drivers are not allowed to do overtime (the unions won't allow it) unless
this is unavoidable due to getting back late when finishing their duty, or
it is additional overtime (normally a few minutes) on certain duties as
agreed by the unions. As a consequence, After they have finished their own
duty, a driver can't then "do a rounder" of another duty because that
driver will be in late.

Roger

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 18:09:34 on Fri, 22 Jul
2011, tim.... remarked:
All very interesting stuff. Thanks. Must be quite a problem for drivers
to
see a GP if it's one of those surgeries where you can't get an
appointment
(even for non-urgent things) until you try calling the reception at 8am
the same day.

So they go to the doctors on a day when they are on lates.

It may not be possible to wait until a day when they are both "on lates",
and calling at 8am manages to get you an appointment.

I was talking to someone a week or two ago about an employee who got
into
trouble because he took a day off at short notice to move house (one of
those occasions where they didn't know the completion date until the
last
minute).

The simple solution to this is to NOT get yourself into that position.

Very easy to say, but I'm sure there are people whose jobs are even less
flexible.

I know that there are, but this doesn't negate the point that when you are
agreeing to buy a house dictating the (rules for the)completion day is well
within your control. Accepting a last minute variable day is a concession
that someone in flexible employment can make, but someone on fixed shifts
cannot. Asking your employer (rather than the vendor) to be flexible in
this instance is unreasonable IMHO

If your work commitments are such that you have to have a completion on a
particular set of dates then you "offer" on that basis.

In the worst case, why does someone actually need to be present when a
removals firm is moving you?

Yes, you do. There's more involved than just shifting a bit of furniture.

You still don't actually need to be there.

tim

In message , at 14:48:04 on Sat, 23 Jul
2011, tim.... remarked:
I was talking to someone a week or two ago about an employee who
into trouble because he took a day off at short notice to move
house (one of those occasions where they didn't know the completion
date until the last minute).

The simple solution to this is to NOT get yourself into that position.

Very easy to say, but I'm sure there are people whose jobs are even less
flexible.

I know that there are, but this doesn't negate the point that when you are
agreeing to buy a house dictating the (rules for the)completion day is well
within your control.

Sometimes the chain will break if you can't complete when others want
you to, despite it being very inconvenient for yourself.

Accepting a last minute variable day is a concession that someone in
flexible employment can make, but someone on fixed shifts cannot.

It's not a "variable day", but a "fixed day at short notice".

Asking your employer (rather than the vendor) to be flexible in
this instance is unreasonable IMHO

Yes, we already know you are the employer from hell.

If your work commitments are such that you have to have a completion on a
particular set of dates then you "offer" on that basis.

In the worst case, why does someone actually need to be present when a
removals firm is moving you?

Yes, you do. There's more involved than just shifting a bit of furniture.

You still don't actually need to be there.

You or a very trusted representative need to be. Some people don't have
ready access to such representatives.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 14:48:04 on Sat, 23 Jul
2011, tim.... remarked:
I was talking to someone a week or two ago about an employee who into
trouble because he took a day off at short notice to move house (one
of those occasions where they didn't know the completion date until
the last minute).

The simple solution to this is to NOT get yourself into that position.

Very easy to say, but I'm sure there are people whose jobs are even less
flexible.

I know that there are, but this doesn't negate the point that when you are
agreeing to buy a house dictating the (rules for the)completion day is
well
within your control.

Sometimes the chain will break if you can't complete when others want you
to, despite it being very inconvenient for yourself.

Accepting a last minute variable day is a concession that someone in
flexible employment can make, but someone on fixed shifts cannot.

It's not a "variable day", but a "fixed day at short notice".

Asking your employer (rather than the vendor) to be flexible in
this instance is unreasonable IMHO

Yes, we already know you are the employer from hell.

No you don't, because I am not an employer :-)

But even if I was, I am the sort of person who would be reasonable as
possible about such issues, but I still wouldn't consider the insistence on
agreeing a flexible completion date as a valid reason for disrupting a,
months in advance, pre-planned shift system.

I would consider that it was the employee who had been unreasonable, not me.

If your work commitments are such that you have to have a completion on
a
particular set of dates then you "offer" on that basis.

In the worst case, why does someone actually need to be present when a
removals firm is moving you?

Yes, you do. There's more involved than just shifting a bit of
furniture.

You still don't actually need to be there.

You or a very trusted representative need to be. Some people don't have
ready access to such representatives.

But most will :

tim

In message , at 13:51:29 on Sun, 24 Jul
2011, tim.... remarked:
Asking your employer (rather than the vendor) to be flexible in
this instance is unreasonable IMHO

Yes, we already know you are the employer from hell.

No you don't, because I am not an employer :-)

But even if I was, I am the sort of person who would be reasonable as
possible about such issues, but I still wouldn't consider the insistence on
agreeing a flexible completion date as a valid reason for disrupting a,
months in advance, pre-planned shift system.

It's not a flexible date, but one that's firmly set at short notice.
With rentals it's even more common to have only a couple of week's
notice.

I would consider that it was the employee who had been unreasonable, not me.

Yes, we know you think that.

Yes, you do. There's more involved than just shifting a bit of
furniture.

You still don't actually need to be there.

You or a very trusted representative need to be. Some people don't have
ready access to such representatives.

But most will :

I doubt it.
--
Roland Perry