Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it? happen here...??
 

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 21:43:29 +0000 (UTC), Hans-Joachim Zierke
wrote:
??? The profit margin of DB in subsidized traffic is somewhere in
the
15 - 20% range.

And where does that go? The Government?

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK

Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it??happen here...??
 

Neil Williams schrieb:


??? The profit margin of DB in subsidized traffic is somewhere in
the
15 - 20% range.

And where does that go? The Government?



No.
Take your guess: How's DB able, to go shopping in Britain?


As a passenger, I'm interested in more trains, not in DB buying Arriva
etc.



Hans-Joachim


--

Frieda Uffelmann * 15. August 1915 â€* 9. Dezember 2011

http://zierke.com/private/tante_frie...abgestellt.jpg

Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it?happen here...??
 

Oliver Schnell schrieb:


Most of the results get published, 2/3 of the former subsidy is a common
result.

This is valid for the first tendering of a specific line or network, but
unfortunately cannot be redone additionally at the second/third/ ...
tender.


Sure.

Everything else would be too good to be true, won't it? ;-)

But there still are plenty of inflated contracts, and at the second
tender, there still might be a few percent to gain.



Hans-Joachim




--

Frieda Uffelmann * 15. August 1915 â€* 9. Dezember 2011

http://zierke.com/private/tante_frie...abgestellt.jpg

Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it?? happen here...??
 

Hans-Joachim Zierke wrote:

Neil Williams schrieb:


??? The profit margin of DB in subsidized traffic is somewhere in
the
15 - 20% range.

And where does that go? The Government?



No.
Take your guess: How's DB able, to go shopping in Britain?

One should add: The Government decided to receive an annual return
due to its 100% share in DB of 500 mill. Euro.


As a passenger, I'm interested in more trains, not in DB buying Arriva
etc.

In the very end such investments *should* show (that does not necessarily
mean, that there actually will be) a reasonable interest. So
irrespective if the capital needed is from profits of subsidised
traffic or other sources, a reasonable ROI has to apply.

BTW: You could be also interested in lower fares, more comfort, more ...


Oliver Schnell

Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could ithappen here...??
 

Am 30.12.2011 11:48, schrieb The Real Doctor:
On 30/12/11 06:09, Lüko Willms wrote:
My knowledge is "superior" simply because I stick to the facts and not
to propaganda.

Who says the Germans have no sense of humour?

You don't have any.

But you have sense of facts: you know how to avoid them like the plague.


L.W.

Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it happen here...??
 

"Lüko Willms" wrote in message
...
Am 30.12.2011 07:09, schrieb Lüko Willms:
Herr Schnell wants to "purge" ALL railway workers in Berlin (at least
those working for the S-Bahn), making them unemployed (which means in
today's Germany to fall quickly into 'Hartz4'). Some of them might be
re-employed, says Herr Schnell, after a new selective process of
recruitment, even for those who have decades of experience in operating
the S-Bahn network.


I forgot to mention that, according to Herr Schnells plan, the workers
would be allowed to reapply for their job (at much worse conditions) only
at a completely new company which would not have the old collective
contracts with the trade union and the works council on the books, so that
the workers would be initially stripped of all their acquisitions which
they got over the past decades and which could not be destroyed by the
takeover of the GDR by the separate West state.

The workers need a good lawyer who understands the German equivalent of TUPE
(Transfer of Undertakings - Protection of Employment) Regulations, and the
European Directive on which it is based. Or perhaps Herr Schnell has a
cunning plan to get Germany to withdraw from the European Union. ;-)

Peter

Peter

Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could ithappen here...??
 

Am 30.12.2011 18:14, schrieb Peter Masson:
I forgot to mention that, according to Herr Schnells plan, the
workers would be allowed to reapply for their job (at much worse
conditions) only at a completely new company which would not have the
old collective contracts with the trade union and the works council on
the books, so that the workers would be initially stripped of all
their acquisitions which they got over the past decades and which
could not be destroyed by the takeover of the GDR by the separate West
state.

The workers need a good lawyer who understands the German equivalent of
TUPE (Transfer of Undertakings - Protection of Employment) Regulations,
and the European Directive on which it is based.

That is what is happening in the Thatcherized Britain, but not in
Germany.

Tendering of transit (rail, tram or bus) operations in Germany does
exclude the taking over of the operation as it is, i.e. just the
exchange of the leading personnel, the stationary and the train
liveries, but the establishment of a completely new operation with their
own "new" workers, vehicles etc.


Cheers,
L.W.

Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it happen here...??
 

On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 18:55:17 +0100, Lüko
wrote:
That is what is happening in the Thatcherized Britain, but not
in
Germany.

TUPE is not Thatcherite, quite the opposite.

Is there no German equivalent?

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK

Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could ithappen here...??
 

Peter Masson schrieb:


The workers need a good lawyer who understands the German equivalent of TUPE
(Transfer of Undertakings - Protection of Employment) Regulations, and the
European Directive on which it is based.


Please name the "German equivalent of TUPE".


Practically, DB will not fire anybody, if they loose parts of the S-Bahn,
or all of it. People will get redistributed within the company, former
S-Bahn drivers might run RE or RB. Those, who want to rehire at a
different company now running the S-Bahn, will do so.

Due to a quick recovery from the crisis, almost all TOCs in Germany are
short on drivers, so the situation for drivers is quite good.


Hans-Joachim




--

Frieda Uffelmann * 15. August 1915 â€* 9. Dezember 2011

http://zierke.com/private/tante_frie...abgestellt.jpg

Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it??happen here...??
 

Oliver Schnell schrieb:


In the very end such investments *should* show (that does not necessarily
mean, that there actually will be) a reasonable interest. So
irrespective if the capital needed is from profits of subsidised
traffic or other sources, a reasonable ROI has to apply.

Please name /any/ foreign investment of DB, which shows a decent ROI.



BTW: You could be also interested in lower fares, more comfort, more ...

Sure, but "more trains" is what we really got, paid by the saved
subsidies, so that's realistic.

We didn't get lower fares or more comfort.



Hans-Joachim


--

Frieda Uffelmann * 15. August 1915 â€* 9. Dezember 2011

http://zierke.com/private/tante_frie...abgestellt.jpg