"Paul Scott" wrote:
CJB has failed to prove that PTT machines are a legal requirement, which is
the main plank of his argument...


... out of three short ones, presumably.

"Roland Perry" wrote

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...1/attach/4/Fil
e%201%20South%20Eastern%20Southern%20South%20Wes t%20Trains%20and%20Chilt
ern.pdf

Whether a machine restricted to one form of payment only is "working", is
a separate debate (and I don't claim to know the answer).

And I was trying to get away from "is a legal requirement" towards "is a
precondition for operating a PF scheme".

I think we have a clue in those agreements. All stations in the Penalty Fare
Area are listed to have at least either a Pertis machine or a TVM that takes
cash and cards Southern has a few stations that do not have any
ticket-issuing facilities (e.g Doleham) and these are excluded from the PF
scheme. RPIs are supposed to be able to, and actually to, check that TVMs
are in full working order (i.e. to take coins and notes, and to give
change - and to take cards) and should not issue a PF if they can't confirm
this. So a TOC can continue to operate a PF scheme even though an individual
station has at the time no ticket-issuing facilities that the passenger
could be expected to use, but in those circumstances it may not issue a PF
to a passenger who has boarded there.

A few oddities - Southern seem to think that LUL serve Milton Keynes
Central.

Peter

Peter

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 16:41:44 on

I should have said "must provide a PTT if there is no way to buy a
ticket". Whether that's from a person or a machine doesn't matter.

Sounds fair. If there is no TVM for use when the ticket office is closed,
or if there is no ticket office or TVM _at all_ then the minimum requirement
for a penalty fares station must be a PTT by default.

But then if you can prove you have a robust system in place to page out
details of defective TVMs to staff, (as SWT claim to have in place), then
you can drop
the PTT.

Paul S

Bruce wrote:

While doing this, you would have to be careful not to jangle the other
coins in your pocket. That would give the lie to your claim of having
only 5p.

You could plead coppers, which I can't recall PTTs or TVMs taking.
Alternatively use a wallet with a tight coin compartment or a separate
coin holder.

That you have obviously thought about this worries me a little. ;-)

No it's because I have a separate coin holder myself and it easily springs
to mind.

A separate coin holder? Serious stuff. ;-)

LOL. No originally I used a wallet as described above but over time the coin
compartment has become so worn it has holes in it. As the rest of the wallet
has a perfect set of compartments I decided to just get a separate little
purse for coins.

--
My blog: http://adf.ly/4hi4c

"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote:
Bruce wrote:
While doing this, you would have to be careful not to jangle the other
coins in your pocket. That would give the lie to your claim of having
only 5p.

You could plead coppers, which I can't recall PTTs or TVMs taking.
Alternatively use a wallet with a tight coin compartment or a separate
coin holder.

That you have obviously thought about this worries me a little. ;-)

No it's because I have a separate coin holder myself and it easily springs
to mind.

A separate coin holder? Serious stuff. ;-)

LOL. No originally I used a wallet as described above but over time the coin
compartment has become so worn it has holes in it. As the rest of the wallet
has a perfect set of compartments I decided to just get a separate little
purse for coins.


Hmm. Wallets and coins don't really mix. I think the sharper edges
of the new steel coins will only make the situation worse.

I was imagining one of those metal coin holders that takes a stack of
£1 coins and has a spring inside. Something that is *engineered*.
That's what I meant by "serious stuff". ;-)

On 27/05/2012 16:41, Paul Scott wrote:
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 11:30:53 on Sun,
27 May 2012, Paul Scott remarked:
CJB has failed to prove that PTT machines are a legal requirement, which
is the main plank of his argument...

iirc they are requirement if you want to operate a "Penalty Fares"
scheme.

They clearly aren't nowadays - they may have been when TVMs outside
stations
were unusual.

How else did SWT systematically remove them from every station they run
(with a few exceptions where there is no TVM)?

Are there any left, I thought they'd all been converted now?


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2012 19:04:27 +0100, Bruce
wrote:
"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote:
Bruce wrote:
While doing this, you would have to be careful not to jangle the other
coins in your pocket.
Alternatively use a wallet with a tight coin compartment or a separate
coin holder.

That you have obviously thought about this worries me a little. ;-)

No it's because I have a separate coin holder myself and it easily springs
to mind.

A separate coin holder? Serious stuff. ;-)

LOL. No originally I used a wallet as described above but over time the coin
compartment has become so worn it has holes in it. As the rest of the wallet
has a perfect set of compartments I decided to just get a separate little
purse for coins.


Hmm. Wallets and coins don't really mix. I think the sharper edges
of the new steel coins will only make the situation worse.

I was imagining one of those metal coin holders that takes a stack of
£1 coins and has a spring inside. Something that is *engineered*.
That's what I meant by "serious stuff". ;-)

Having had a wallet that took various demonations of Euro coins in
separate "holes" I was trying find one that held UK coins but hadn't
found one. meanwhile the missus got me one of these.
http://tinyurl.com/cfmmflb
Been an absolute boon especially when my job entailed paying for
parking at various locations through the day.
A tad heavy for a trouser pocket but OK in the coat. Gets a lot of
remarks when I use it as to how well organised I am which is far from
the reality.


That's a four-barrelled version of what I had in mind.

Very "serious stuff" indeed! Does it come with a trolley? :-)

In message
, ian
batten wrote:
Booking and paying for a hotel room without a card
would be close to impossible, I suspect, although I've never tried it,
and that's a service offered to the general public.

At least twice in the last year I've booked a hotel (in the UK) without
giving a credit card and paid cash when I checked out in the morning.

(Both were small places, not big chains, but that's irrelevant to your
point.)

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Mobile: +44 7973 377646 | Web: http://www.davros.org
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

In message , Peter Masson
wrote:
A few oddities - Southern seem to think that LUL serve Milton Keynes
Central.

I've taken an LUL train to Rugby.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Mobile: +44 7973 377646 | Web: http://www.davros.org
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
On 27/05/2012 16:41, Paul Scott wrote:

How else did SWT systematically remove them from every station they run
(with a few exceptions where there is no TVM)?

Are there any left, I thought they'd all been converted now?

Redbridge, Millbrook and Beaulieu Rd are the three locally, they each just
have a permit machine, but it is a new style by S&B, not the familiar NSE
red painted device.

I'd expect Longcross to have no TVM, (as NR Enquires confirms), but I'd
have to search for a fifth station, someone else may know...

Paul S