In message , Dave Newt
writes
Kat wrote:
Are you certain the readers were off? The gates can be set to open but
wouldn't normally be powered down unless there's a fault.

Absolutely. No lights and no reaction. (I tried briefly.)

OK, I can find out about that.


So it would assume I had started in Z1-3 (my season)? So if a Z6-D gate
had been off, I would have only paid £1 to get out in Z4, since it would
have assumed I came in in Z1-3?

On the way back you'd need to put £2.00 for the cost of two
extensions (assuming you have 1 - 2)

Oh yeah, getting back would not be a problem - I mean the extension
calculator didn't know where I got on in this case, so I am just
wondering how it would guess where I got on (and what it would guess).

I've given up assuming anything about what Oyster cards might guess. If
you go to a ticket office and get your journey resolved, you can tell
them where and why you couldn't validate the start of your journey and
they ought to accept your word for it.
I imagine you've used your Oyster since Saturday, so how much did you
have to pay?
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

Kat wrote:

In message , Dave Newt
writes
Kat wrote:
Are you certain the readers were off? The gates can be set to open but
wouldn't normally be powered down unless there's a fault.

Absolutely. No lights and no reaction. (I tried briefly.)

OK, I can find out about that.


So it would assume I had started in Z1-3 (my season)? So if a Z6-D gate
had been off, I would have only paid £1 to get out in Z4, since it would
have assumed I came in in Z1-3?

On the way back you'd need to put £2.00 for the cost of two
extensions (assuming you have 1 - 2)

Oh yeah, getting back would not be a problem - I mean the extension
calculator didn't know where I got on in this case, so I am just
wondering how it would guess where I got on (and what it would guess).

I've given up assuming anything about what Oyster cards might guess. If
you go to a ticket office and get your journey resolved, you can tell
them where and why you couldn't validate the start of your journey and
they ought to accept your word for it.
I imagine you've used your Oyster since Saturday, so how much did you
have to pay?

Hmm, nothing in this case - my journey was not unresolved, since the
machines were off on entry, and the SAs were nice on exit. :-)

(Plus I didn't reenter anyway, got a lift home.)

I think at South Woodford there is no cash office inside the gate, so
they had to let me out even if they were gonna make me buy an extension.
However, they made it clear they didn't expect me to, they just said
"we'd suggest you put some prepay on for coming back and if this journey
comes up as unresolved, go to the ticket office to sort it out".

In a way, I am glad there wasn't any prepay on it, since I don't know
how much it would have deducted!

In message , Dave Newt
writes
In a way, I am glad there wasn't any prepay on it, since I don't know
how much it would have deducted!

It wouldn't have mattered if there *was* or *was not* Pre Pay on it, if
the validators had been working you'd have been charged £1.00 anyway.
No Pre Pay at all and it's a debit (shows as -£1.00)
Any Pre Pay amount at all (say 20p) and it would show -£0.80 or
whatever.
Pre Pay is enabled on ALL Oyster cards... except ours it seems.
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

In message , Dave Newt
writes

Hmm, nothing in this case - my journey was not unresolved, since the
machines were off on entry, and the SAs were nice on exit. :-)

I thought you said you couldn't get out at South Woodford. Was this
because the Oyster wouldn't open the gate or because you didn't try
because you realised that not validating at Leyton would cause problems?
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

Kat wrote:

In message , Dave Newt
writes

Hmm, nothing in this case - my journey was not unresolved, since the
machines were off on entry, and the SAs were nice on exit. :-)

I thought you said you couldn't get out at South Woodford. Was this
because the Oyster wouldn't open the gate or because you didn't try
because you realised that not validating at Leyton would cause problems?

I tried and it didn't let me out.

However, I'm still struggling with understanding for which reason it
chose to do so!

i.e. because there was zero prepay (should have let me out with a
negative balance?) or because there was no recorded entry (should have
done - er no idea) or some other reason.

In message , Dave Newt
writes
Kat wrote:

In message , Dave Newt
writes

Hmm, nothing in this case - my journey was not unresolved, since the
machines were off on entry, and the SAs were nice on exit. :-)

I thought you said you couldn't get out at South Woodford. Was this
because the Oyster wouldn't open the gate or because you didn't try
because you realised that not validating at Leyton would cause problems?

I tried and it didn't let me out.

However, I'm still struggling with understanding for which reason it
chose to do so!

i.e. because there was zero prepay (should have let me out with a
negative balance?) or because there was no recorded entry (should have
done - er no idea) or some other reason.

Some other reason I suspect.
The gates should open with a warning Seek Assistance if you have either
a negative Pre Pay balance or an Unresolved Journey.
They just won't let you IN again until it's been sorted out.
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 00:43:46 +0000, Dave Newt
wrote:

Kat wrote:

In message , Dave Newt
writes

Hmm, nothing in this case - my journey was not unresolved, since the
machines were off on entry, and the SAs were nice on exit. :-)

I thought you said you couldn't get out at South Woodford. Was this
because the Oyster wouldn't open the gate or because you didn't try
because you realised that not validating at Leyton would cause problems?

I tried and it didn't let me out.

However, I'm still struggling with understanding for which reason it
chose to do so!

i.e. because there was zero prepay (should have let me out with a
negative balance?) or because there was no recorded entry (should have
done - er no idea) or some other reason.

My guess is that the gates at South Woodford didn't let you out because
there was no recorded entry point given that you had travelled beyond
your zonal availability. The system needs to know where you entered to
calculate any pre-pay deduction as you could have entered at Zone 6 at
Epping or equally Zone 5 in West London.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
My guess is that the gates at South Woodford didn't let you out because
there was no recorded entry point given that you had travelled beyond
your zonal availability. The system needs to know where you entered to
calculate any pre-pay deduction as you could have entered at Zone 6 at
Epping or equally Zone 5 in West London.

Even under those circumstances, the gate will show a 24 code but will
open and he wouldn't have been able to use the Oyster subsequently until
the unresolved journey or Pre Pay debit had been cleared.
If Dave can remember the code which showed it might be possible to work
out what was going on. It's much more likely to have been a
communication error between the Oyster and the gate.
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:35:19 +0000, Kat
wrote:

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
My guess is that the gates at South Woodford didn't let you out because
there was no recorded entry point given that you had travelled beyond
your zonal availability. The system needs to know where you entered to
calculate any pre-pay deduction as you could have entered at Zone 6 at
Epping or equally Zone 5 in West London.

Even under those circumstances, the gate will show a 24 code but will
open and he wouldn't have been able to use the Oyster subsequently until
the unresolved journey or Pre Pay debit had been cleared.
If Dave can remember the code which showed it might be possible to work
out what was going on. It's much more likely to have been a
communication error between the Oyster and the gate.

Oh dear - I think I need to book myself on the Oyster training course.
That'll teach me to apply my old knowledge of ticket logic. I must
re-read the intranet notes on error 24 again then.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Kat wrote:

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
My guess is that the gates at South Woodford didn't let you out because
there was no recorded entry point given that you had travelled beyond
your zonal availability. The system needs to know where you entered to
calculate any pre-pay deduction as you could have entered at Zone 6 at
Epping or equally Zone 5 in West London.

Even under those circumstances, the gate will show a 24 code but will
open and he wouldn't have been able to use the Oyster subsequently until
the unresolved journey or Pre Pay debit had been cleared.

....but there was no unresolved journey. It worked fine when I next used
it (the next day).

In a way, whether Paul is right or wrong, it seems to make more sense,
logically.

If Dave can remember the code which showed it might be possible to work
out what was going on. It's much more likely to have been a
communication error between the Oyster and the gate.

'Fraid I don't know - neither me nor the SAs looked (well, they might
have done, but they didn't comment). Possible, though it would have been
a bit of a coinkidink do have stumbled upon a dodgy gate as well as
everything else...

Ah well, we live and (don't) learn!