On Friday, 18 April 2014 16:56:11 UTC+1, David Cantrell wrote:
For the last few days I've been using a PAYG Oyster card instead of my

normal paper Travelcard.



I did one of my usual journeys - tube from Waterloo to Balham, then

train to Thornton Heath - on Wednesday evening. But the Oyster card

reader at Balham didn't work properly. The gate opened but didn't record

my touch-out, so I've got an unresolved journey.



TfL, despite knowing my email address because that's what I use to sign

in to their website to make sure they haven't ripped me off, couldn't be

bothered to notify me. I only know about the unresolved journey because

I don't trust Oyster and went and checked.



And of course I can't submit my claim for a refund using my normal web

browser which works on every other site. I have to use Firefox instead.



It remains to be seen whether I actually end up being charged the right

amount or not. And, of course, I have to use Oyster again to pick up my

refund. I didn't see any option on the website for "refund my credit

card" or "send me a cheque", they just blithely assume that I use Oyster

all the time, when in fact I was planning on getting a Travelcard

again on Tuesday and not using the trains at all this weekend.



--

David Cantrell | top google result for "topless karaoke murders"



More people are driven insane through religious hysteria than

by drinking alcohol. -- W C Fields

And now TfL want to replace Oyster with Barclay Debit / Credit Cards or whatever. This means that they can directly debit your card with the cost of a journey whether that cost is correct or not. Who will then have the responsibility to correct an unresolved journey for which the maximum free has been charged? And what if a user exceeds his / her credit limit on a card. If NR and TfL aren't that interested in correcting matters then I'm damned sure that the banks aren't. Overcharging and then refusing to refund is tantamount to deliberate fraud - but then the banks know how to do that anyway. But TfL have at least admitted that they make millions from overcharging on unresolved journeys yet still they are moving towards using 'contactless' bank cards. CJB.

David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 02:50:13PM +0100, Mike Bristow wrote:
In article ,
David Cantrell wrote:
Tue 15 Apr
09:15 - 10:14 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30
18:49 - 19:56 Aldgate East - Thornton Heath: GBP 5.30

The Aldgate East - Victoria Fare is 2.20 peak/offpeak.
The Victoria - Thornton Heath fare is 3.70 peak, 2.60 offpeak.
Off peak starts in the evening at 19:00.
So there are _four_ possible fares for the journey home:
as a "two leg" trip, with both legs peak: 5.90.
as a "single leg" trip at peak time: 5.30.
as a "two leg trip", with the Vic - Thornton leg offpeak: 4.80
as a "single leg" trip at offpeak: 4.10

That means that if I leave Aldgate East at 18:49 I should be charged
a total of 4.80, because I won't go through the NR barriers at Victoria
until after 19:00. But I'm actually charged 5.30.

That looks correct -- the fare is based on when you entered, not left, the
system. So a journey starting at 18:49 is charged at peak prices.

In article ,
(Piatkow) wrote:

Go through a gate that opens in front of you and discover the touch
hasn't been registered,

I have never seen that happen when it was definitely my own card that
opened the gate. When a large crowd is pushing through the gate may
have opened for the person in front or the person behind. Even so the
problem is more likely to be somebody trying to slip through as the
gates open for you.

Whatever. She managed it twice in one day.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article
,
(Recliner) wrote:

David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 02:50:13PM +0100, Mike Bristow wrote:
In article ,
David Cantrell wrote:
Tue 15 Apr
09:15 - 10:14 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30
18:49 - 19:56 Aldgate East - Thornton Heath: GBP 5.30

The Aldgate East - Victoria Fare is 2.20 peak/offpeak.
The Victoria - Thornton Heath fare is 3.70 peak, 2.60 offpeak.
Off peak starts in the evening at 19:00.
So there are _four_ possible fares for the journey home:
as a "two leg" trip, with both legs peak: 5.90.
as a "single leg" trip at peak time: 5.30.
as a "two leg trip", with the Vic - Thornton leg offpeak: 4.80
as a "single leg" trip at offpeak: 4.10

That means that if I leave Aldgate East at 18:49 I should be charged
a total of 4.80, because I won't go through the NR barriers at Victoria
until after 19:00. But I'm actually charged 5.30.

That looks correct -- the fare is based on when you entered, not left, the
system. So a journey starting at 18:49 is charged at peak prices.

The difference is if the journey is split into two. I am not clear why this
journey might or might not be so split, given that touch out and in at
Victoria must happen.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Peter Johnson) wrote:

On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 18:08:41 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

However the alternative is that thousands of journey combinations are
priced via Zone 1 *regardless* of the fact that for a lot of journeys
orbital routes avoiding Zone 1 are now feasible. The DLR and
Overground have facilitated a lot of that extra choice.

I, for one, would object enormously to be charged via Zone 1 when I'd
never been through the centre! If I *do* go via Zone 1 then fair
enough I'll pay the extension fare but at least I've decided to do
that rather than some system imposing it on me even when I have *not*
been via Zone. If I need to tap a pink reader to stay in the rule set
then that's OK, if a little tiresome.

I came up against that at Willesden Junction when the new
inter-platform route was opened; I used it but there is no pink reader
there and no warning that it must be used. There was no way that I
could have got from Stonebridge Park to Kew in the time taken if I had
gone via Zone 1 but neither LOR nor TfL were interested in putting
things right.

I thought the pink validator was on the route between those lines at
Willesden Junction? It was somewhere around there when I had to walk from
the LO platforms and back to use it.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(David Cantrell) wrote:

*Subject:* Oyster: still an unreliable rip-off
*From:* David Cantrell
*Date:* Thu, 24 Apr 2014 12:44:59 +0100

On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 09:46:19AM -0500,
wrote:
In article ,
(David Cantrell) wrote:
Oh, there are lots of other things displayed. But unless I stop
and look
carefully while people queue up behind me, and then pull my phone
out,
navigate to the right page on TfL's website, and carefully
compare the
two - the "information" isn't useful information at all.
It tells you the fare deducted and the new card balance if it's not
one of the old gates.

Not useful, unless you're in the tiny minority that have memorised
what
the fares should be and who know what their card balance is at all
times. And you still have to stop and bend down to see what it says
while the person behind is trying to push you through the gate because
they're not expecting you to stop and admire the scenery.

I think you exaggerate somewhat. The gates that tell are easy enough to with
minimal delay. Most in central London don't give out the information though.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote:
In article
,
(Recliner) wrote:

David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 02:50:13PM +0100, Mike Bristow wrote:
In article ,
David Cantrell wrote:
Tue 15 Apr
09:15 - 10:14 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30
18:49 - 19:56 Aldgate East - Thornton Heath: GBP 5.30

The Aldgate East - Victoria Fare is 2.20 peak/offpeak.
The Victoria - Thornton Heath fare is 3.70 peak, 2.60 offpeak.
Off peak starts in the evening at 19:00.
So there are _four_ possible fares for the journey home:
as a "two leg" trip, with both legs peak: 5.90.
as a "single leg" trip at peak time: 5.30.
as a "two leg trip", with the Vic - Thornton leg offpeak: 4.80
as a "single leg" trip at offpeak: 4.10

That means that if I leave Aldgate East at 18:49 I should be charged
a total of 4.80, because I won't go through the NR barriers at Victoria
until after 19:00. But I'm actually charged 5.30.

That looks correct -- the fare is based on when you entered, not left, the
system. So a journey starting at 18:49 is charged at peak prices.

The difference is if the journey is split into two. I am not clear why this
journey might or might not be so split, given that touch out and in at
Victoria must happen.

Presumably it's an OSI, so it would be treated as one peak journey.

In article
,
(Recliner) wrote:

wrote:
In article
,
(Recliner) wrote:

David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 02:50:13PM +0100, Mike Bristow wrote:
In article ,
David Cantrell wrote:
Tue 15 Apr
09:15 - 10:14 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30
18:49 - 19:56 Aldgate East - Thornton Heath: GBP 5.30

The Aldgate East - Victoria Fare is 2.20 peak/offpeak.
The Victoria - Thornton Heath fare is 3.70 peak, 2.60 offpeak.
Off peak starts in the evening at 19:00.
So there are _four_ possible fares for the journey home:
as a "two leg" trip, with both legs peak: 5.90.
as a "single leg" trip at peak time: 5.30.
as a "two leg trip", with the Vic - Thornton leg offpeak: 4.80
as a "single leg" trip at offpeak: 4.10

That means that if I leave Aldgate East at 18:49 I should be charged
a total of 4.80, because I won't go through the NR barriers at
Victoria until after 19:00. But I'm actually charged 5.30.

That looks correct -- the fare is based on when you entered, not left,
the system. So a journey starting at 18:49 is charged at peak prices.

The difference is if the journey is split into two. I am not clear
why this journey might or might not be so split, given that touch
out and in at Victoria must happen.

Presumably it's an OSI, so it would be treated as one peak journey.

Indeed, but one example given in this thread managed to notice the
possibility of splitting and did so to minimise the fare.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 10:47:36 -0500, wrote:

In article ,
(Peter Johnson) wrote:

On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 18:08:41 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

However the alternative is that thousands of journey combinations are
priced via Zone 1 *regardless* of the fact that for a lot of journeys
orbital routes avoiding Zone 1 are now feasible. The DLR and
Overground have facilitated a lot of that extra choice.

I, for one, would object enormously to be charged via Zone 1 when I'd
never been through the centre! If I *do* go via Zone 1 then fair
enough I'll pay the extension fare but at least I've decided to do
that rather than some system imposing it on me even when I have *not*
been via Zone. If I need to tap a pink reader to stay in the rule set
then that's OK, if a little tiresome.

I came up against that at Willesden Junction when the new
inter-platform route was opened; I used it but there is no pink reader
there and no warning that it must be used. There was no way that I
could have got from Stonebridge Park to Kew in the time taken if I had
gone via Zone 1 but neither LOR nor TfL were interested in putting
things right.

I thought the pink validator was on the route between those lines at
Willesden Junction? It was somewhere around there when I had to walk
from the LO platforms and back to use it.

Mr J is correct. There are *two* routes between the NLL and DC
platforms at WJ. if you go the old route down the narrow stairs and
"up and down" corridor then you do fall across the pink validators
(near the stairs down to the n/b DC platform). However if you use
the new link at the eastern end of the NLL platform it takes you round
in the open and you can reach the DC platforms without encountering a
pink validator.

For a while there was a similar issue when they created a new wide
stairway from the e/b NLL platform to the GOBLIN bay at Gospel Oak.
The pink validator is located on the narrow ramp so it was entirely
possible to dash between a NLL and GOBLIN train on the new stairs and
not see a pink validator. I *think* TfL have installed an extra pink
validator on the stepped route. Nonethless it was all too easy for
people to change trains and not validate.

They don't seem to be helping do they?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote:
In article
,
(Recliner) wrote:

wrote:
In article
,
(Recliner) wrote:

David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 02:50:13PM +0100, Mike Bristow wrote:
In article ,
David Cantrell wrote:
Tue 15 Apr
09:15 - 10:14 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30
18:49 - 19:56 Aldgate East - Thornton Heath: GBP 5.30

The Aldgate East - Victoria Fare is 2.20 peak/offpeak.
The Victoria - Thornton Heath fare is 3.70 peak, 2.60 offpeak.
Off peak starts in the evening at 19:00.
So there are _four_ possible fares for the journey home:
as a "two leg" trip, with both legs peak: 5.90.
as a "single leg" trip at peak time: 5.30.
as a "two leg trip", with the Vic - Thornton leg offpeak: 4.80
as a "single leg" trip at offpeak: 4.10

That means that if I leave Aldgate East at 18:49 I should be charged
a total of 4.80, because I won't go through the NR barriers at
Victoria until after 19:00. But I'm actually charged 5.30.

That looks correct -- the fare is based on when you entered, not left,
the system. So a journey starting at 18:49 is charged at peak prices.

The difference is if the journey is split into two. I am not clear
why this journey might or might not be so split, given that touch
out and in at Victoria must happen.

Presumably it's an OSI, so it would be treated as one peak journey.

Indeed, but one example given in this thread managed to notice the
possibility of splitting and did so to minimise the fare.

You'd need to spend long enough in Victoria to exceed the OSI limit for it
to be treated as two journeys.