On 2014-10-26 15:02:09 +0000, Roland Perry said:

Only applies to cars "launched", it says. So at least people can
continue to make cars (launched previously) where a good driver can
steer both ends (the front with the wheel, the back with the foot).

Most drivers do not have that skill, so the overall effect will be
beneficial. Same with ABS, because most drivers aren't quick enough
with the pedal to do the same thing manually (and in any case no car
has separate single wheel manual braking control, so ABS can pretty
much always do it better).

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On 2014-10-26 15:06:25 +0000, Roland Perry said:

ABS-style braking is the opposite of traction control. The former
automates the stopping of vehicles, that latter the acceleration.

Yes, but they work in the same way using the same physical features of
the car, taking advantage of how the differential works to deliver the
former, which is why adding the latter is mainly a software thing.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

Neil Williams wrote:
On 2014-10-26 15:02:09 +0000, Roland Perry said:

Only applies to cars "launched", it says. So at least people can
continue to make cars (launched previously) where a good driver can
steer both ends (the front with the wheel, the back with the foot).

Most drivers do not have that skill, so the overall effect will be
beneficial. Same with ABS, because most drivers aren't quick enough with
the pedal to do the same thing manually (and in any case no car has
separate single wheel manual braking control, so ABS can pretty much always do it better).

Most cars allow the ASC to be switched off, though some manufacturers still
keep a milder version turned on in the background. My car has an ASC button
next to the Sport button (used to change the Auto shift pattern and lock
out sixth gear). By default, ASC is on and Sport off. But I don't think any
cars allow ABS to be turned off.

TBH I think it will go one further than that - there will be a move to
series hybrids, which have electric transmission just like a
diesel-electric locomotive, with added regenerative braking to charge
the batteries.

The obvious approach would be to put motors in the wheels, like they
do on electric streetcars. But apparently motors are heavy, and that
would make the unsprung weight of the car undesirably high, so they'd
have to put the motors in the body, with fiddly universal joints to
connect them to the wheels. But unless they are a lot more fuel
efficient than current hybrids I wouldn't bother. I have the US
hybrid version of the Ford C-Max, which gets about 48 mi/G (imperial
gallon), and the UK non-hybrid version is rated at 55.

Do electric trolly buses have motors in the wheels like streetcars?
I'd think that the greater overall weight would make the unsprung
weight issue less important.

In message , at 15:22:25 on Sun, 26
Oct 2014, Neil Williams remarked:
ABS-style braking is the opposite of traction control. The former
automates the stopping of vehicles, that latter the acceleration.

Yes, but they work in the same way using the same physical features of
the car, taking advantage of how the differential works to deliver the
former, which is why adding the latter is mainly a software thing.

I would hope that proper traction control fed the power the most
suitable wheels, without having to rely upon brakes on the least
suitable wheels absorbing 100HP that the electronics says should be
suppressed.
--
Roland Perry

In message

, at 10:19:53 on Sun, 26 Oct 2014, Recliner
remarked:

How does this initiative affect Rally cars?

They're not standard cars.

Do Homologation Specials no longer exist?
--
Roland Perry

Isn't it still possible to buy at least some sporty cars with
traditional stick shifts in the US? But, certainly, the mainstream
and rental markets abandoned the stick shift a long time ago. I wonder
how many American drivers would be able to use a clutch pedal?

Stick shifts are indeed rare in the US other than on some imports.
Most drivers my age (60) and older can drive a stick, younger ones
mostly can't.

Of course, kids these days also have no idea what to do if confronted
with a telephone with a mechanical rotary dial.

R's,
John

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at 10:19:53 on Sun, 26 Oct 2014, Recliner remarked:

How does this initiative affect Rally cars?

They're not standard cars.

Do Homologation Specials no longer exist?

Even if they do, they'd just turn off the ASC, as you can in every
performance car. Such cars wouldn't have a hidden, more subtle, ASC in the
background, as many ordinary cars do.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:22:25 on Sun, 26 Oct
2014, Neil Williams remarked:
ABS-style braking is the opposite of traction control. The former
automates the stopping of vehicles, that latter the acceleration.

Yes, but they work in the same way using the same physical features of
the car, taking advantage of how the differential works to deliver the
former, which is why adding the latter is mainly a software thing.

I would hope that proper traction control fed the power the most suitable
wheels, without having to rely upon brakes on the least suitable wheels
absorbing 100HP that the electronics says should be suppressed.

If you had a car with independent direct power transmission to each wheel,
your solution would work. But in the near 100% of cars with differentials,
you just have to stop the wheel with no traction from spinning the power
away from the other wheel that may have some limited traction. But the
brake certainly won't be absorbing 100bhp: very little power is being
transmitted when the wheels are spinning without traction.

In message

, at 11:38:16 on Sun, 26 Oct 2014, Recliner
remarked:
ABS-style braking is the opposite of traction control. The former
automates the stopping of vehicles, that latter the acceleration.

Yes, but they work in the same way using the same physical features of
the car, taking advantage of how the differential works to deliver the
former, which is why adding the latter is mainly a software thing.

I would hope that proper traction control fed the power the most suitable
wheels, without having to rely upon brakes on the least suitable wheels
absorbing 100HP that the electronics says should be suppressed.

If you had a car with independent direct power transmission to each wheel,
your solution would work. But in the near 100% of cars with differentials,
you just have to stop the wheel with no traction from spinning the power
away from the other wheel that may have some limited traction. But the
brake certainly won't be absorbing 100bhp: very little power is being
transmitted when the wheels are spinning without traction.

I'd do that by locking the differential, rather than braking the errant
wheel, but I can see how the two activities could be conflated.
--
Roland Perry