In message , at 20:49:39 on Tue, 19 May
2015, Mizter T remarked:
Physical maps take a while to print, distribute and place; online maps
can be replaced just in time.

So that's 4am on the 31st? 8am would be "just too late" for people
heading to work that morning and wanting to check the map.

Oh Mr P, you do like to pick a fight where there isn't one.

None of the services are changing, just the operators.

No timetable changes, or fares?

--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 20:49:39 on Tue, 19 May 2015,
Mizter T remarked:
Physical maps take a while to print, distribute and place; online maps
can be replaced just in time.

So that's 4am on the 31st? 8am would be "just too late" for people
heading to work that morning and wanting to check the map.

Oh Mr P, you do like to pick a fight where there isn't one.

None of the services are changing, just the operators.

No timetable changes, or fares?

Even if there are, would the map show them?

On 19/05/2015 21:17, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 20:49:39 on Tue, 19 May
2015, Mizter T remarked:
Physical maps take a while to print, distribute and place; online maps
can be replaced just in time.

So that's 4am on the 31st? 8am would be "just too late" for people
heading to work that morning and wanting to check the map.

Oh Mr P, you do like to pick a fight where there isn't one.

None of the services are changing, just the operators.

No timetable changes, or fares?


Given the summer timetable has just commenced (17 May), there won't be
any timetable changes.

Fares changes - yes, Brentwood is moving into zone 9, and presumably the
TfL-controlled lines will start charging the TfL rate rather than the NR
rate for PAYG/contactless fares, meaning the red bits on the West Anglia
and GEML on this map will turn green:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/pay-as-you-go-tarrifs-national-rail.pdf

On 19/05/2015 21:25, Recliner wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:
[...]
Physical maps take a while to print, distribute and place; online maps
can be replaced just in time.

So that's 4am on the 31st? 8am would be "just too late" for people
heading to work that morning and wanting to check the map.

Oh Mr P, you do like to pick a fight where there isn't one.

None of the services are changing, just the operators.

No timetable changes, or fares?

Even if there are, would the map show them?


The only change the map shows is Brentwood moving into zone 9, from
being in the PAYG area but outside the zones (Shenfield remains in the
latter situation - no doubt because Greater Anglia are in charges of the
fares from there, much like the situation at Watford Junction with
London Midland).

On 19/05/2015 00:39, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Mon, 18 May 2015 21:38:47 +0100, Mizter T
wrote:

Picked up a copy of the new "London's Rail & Tube services" map- the one
with London & the South East rail services on the reverse - dunno why
they ditched the nifty 'London Connections' name but whatever, I suppose
the newer name is more descriptive and perhaps less cryptic.

Where did you pick it up from?

Erm, I think it may have been Beckenham Junction but I wouldn't swear to
that. It's not under some sort of embargo is it, so I'm not about to get
someone fired by saying that?! For al I know it's elsewhere as well, I
haven't really been looking.

Distribution and availability of the (printed) map certainly seem rather
better these days than they once were, though still somewhat sporadic.


Anyway, it's valid from 31 May 2015, and features the solid orange of
London Overground on the West Anglia Metro services - Enfield Town,
Cheshunt (via S.S.) and Chingford (I wonder how they're going to
name/brand them), and the new solid blue of Crossra... easy, not quite
yet(!)... the new solid blue of 'TfL Rail', the interim brand being used
on the Shenfield Metro services that are transferring to TfL control (to
be operated by MTR) and will in future head into the new tunnel under
London heading west.

I was at St James Street station (Walthamstow) recently around dusk, and
it wasn't doing a very good job of being an attractive proposition of a
railway station. I think I shall take that as my measure of comparison
for the improvements that LO shall bring.

Well St James St has never been a byword for an attractive station. It
was the first suburban rail station I used in Greater London. It's
even worse now given the alterations to remove the need to pass
through the ticket hall to reach the street from platform level. I
suspect TfL will end up reversing whatever it is that WAGN / National
Express / Abellio have done (I've no idea when the changes were made).
You certainly can't put ticket gates in the place at the moment and I
understand TfL want all the stations gated. That's something of a
challenge in itself given the limited space at some stations.

I imagine that fares revenue will see a bit of a jump then! I recall
some TfL press blurb talking of the jump in passenger numbers on the NLL
in something like the first year after the LO takeover - without a doubt
'Overgroundisation' started making the whole service more attractive
even a short while after taking control (with small things like, y'know,
actually cleaning the trains!) - but the fact there was actually started
being a significant attempt to ensure people had tickets (gating
stations and RPI checks) might have just had something to do with it,
compared to Silverlink's attitude which was essentially that of defeat
(apart from passengers interchanging at Willesden Junction, which
courtesy of privatisation had been illogically placed in zone 3).

I know things are squeezed purse-strings wise (seems like it'll be the
case forever more), but I assume there is at least some funding for
improvements to the new parts of LO and also the to-be-Crossrail
stations on the GEML?

They will at least have a custodian who's in it for the long haul. I
recall in 2007 there was a memorandum of understanding between the DfT
and TfL which basically said that the handover to them of the LO routes
was a long term thing - has there been similar in the case of the Wesn
Anglia metro routes (it's kinda implicit in terms of the Shenfield line
in the context of Crossrail).

In article , (Mizter T) wrote:

On 19/05/2015 21:17, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 20:49:39 on Tue, 19 May
2015, Mizter T remarked:
Physical maps take a while to print, distribute and place; online
maps can be replaced just in time.

So that's 4am on the 31st? 8am would be "just too late" for people
heading to work that morning and wanting to check the map.

Oh Mr P, you do like to pick a fight where there isn't one.

None of the services are changing, just the operators.

No timetable changes, or fares?

Given the summer timetable has just commenced (17 May), there won't
be any timetable changes.

Fares changes - yes, Brentwood is moving into zone 9, and presumably
the TfL-controlled lines will start charging the TfL rate rather than
the NR rate for PAYG/contactless fares, meaning the red bits on the
West Anglia and GEML on this map will turn green:


http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms...arrifs-nationa
l-rail.pdf

Not the Lea valley line, surely?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article

rg, (Recliner) wrote:

wrote:
In article


rg, (Recliner) wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 00:39:30
on Tue, 19 May 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:
Picked up a copy of the new "London's Rail & Tube services" map- the
one with London & the South East rail services on the reverse -
dunno why they ditched the nifty 'London Connections' name but
whatever, I suppose the newer name is more descriptive and perhaps
less cryptic.

Where did you pick it up from?

Anyway, it's valid from 31 May 2015,

Online it's still the December 2014 edition.

Presumably they only put the new one online once it's valid?

Well, they changed the Victoria Line car line diagrams to show
interchange with London Overground at 3 stations late last month.

Physical maps take a while to print, distribute and place; online maps can
be replaced just in time.

No new maps were printed. These are overlay stickers which could easily have
been applied in depot nearer the time.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote:
In article

, (Recliner) wrote:

wrote:
In article


, (Recliner) wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 00:39:30
on Tue, 19 May 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:
Picked up a copy of the new "London's Rail & Tube services" map- the
one with London & the South East rail services on the reverse -
dunno why they ditched the nifty 'London Connections' name but
whatever, I suppose the newer name is more descriptive and perhaps
less cryptic.

Where did you pick it up from?

Anyway, it's valid from 31 May 2015,

Online it's still the December 2014 edition.

Presumably they only put the new one online once it's valid?

Well, they changed the Victoria Line car line diagrams to show
interchange with London Overground at 3 stations late last month.

Physical maps take a while to print, distribute and place; online maps can
be replaced just in time.

No new maps were printed. These are overlay stickers which could easily have
been applied in depot nearer the time.

Er, weren't the overlay stickers printed? The line has 376 cars with at
least six line diagrams per car. The stickers need to be carefully aligned
on the map before being pressed into place, which must mean they take 30
secs or so each. I'd imagine that sort of work is sub-contracted and is
probably done by a small team over many days, perhaps when the trains are
out of service between the peaks, rather than more expensively overnight.

On 20/05/2015 01:12, wrote:

In article , (Mizter T) wrote:
[snip]
Fares changes - yes, Brentwood is moving into zone 9, and presumably
the TfL-controlled lines will start charging the TfL rate rather than
the NR rate for PAYG/contactless fares, meaning the red bits on the
West Anglia and GEML on this map will turn green:


http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/pay-as-you-go-tarrifs-national-rail.pdf

Not the Lea valley line, surely?

Sorry, I was being a bit slapdash, you're absolutely correct - the Lea
Valley line and its stations stay with Greater Anglia.

So no improvements for Angel Rd station on the cards...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dgeezer/6953361031/

On Wed, 20 May 2015 09:34:43 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

Sorry but the scale of the restickering task is enormous. I used to be
responsible for ordering all of these changes and the work has to fit
in alongside all the other work being done on the train fleets.

There are thousands of line diagrams, maps, fixed signs, announcements
and displays to be amended.

How did you keep track of everything that needed to be changed?

--
jhk